5 ms·

More importantly, how’s it block the inhalation of covid?

by mozman 2y ago

sofixa 2y ago
Why more importantly? For an airborne pandemic with very a long incubation period (if memory serves me right up to 2-3 weeks), lack of symptoms in many cases, preventing the spread is the number one priority on the level of a city/local/central government. Quarantines and lockdowns are good old tested ways, but infeasible for prolonged periods of time. Having everyone wear a mask and drastically reduce the spread was such a no brainer I never understood all the panic around it.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  "More importantly" because people seem to respond better to self-interest than they do to promoting the public good.
- lettergram 2y ago
  Not the original poster, but It’s probably more important because you can’t force people to wear masks. As such, the question is “can I protect myself?” If you can, there’s absolutely no reason to force other people to mask anyway & you get the same benefit. That’s the ideal situation for everyone.
  - DonnyV 2y ago
    Yeah, I mean its not like we live in a community or anything. I should be able to drive as fast as I want through school zones.
    - thfuran 2y ago
      As long as you have a sturdy SUV with a big steel grill on the front, I don't see the issue.
  - tivert 2y ago
    > Not the original poster, but It’s probably more important because you can’t force people to wear masks. Why can't "you" force people to wear masks? Depending on exactly who you mean by "you" (the particular poster, an abstract actor (individual or organization), etc.), what you say could be true to mostly false.
    - ycombobreaker 2y ago
      I can't speak for anyone else, but this can clearly be interpreted on a personal level. Every day I can do my best to influence public policy; but even if I am successful, a policy change takes time. In the meantime, I can decide whether I will wear a mask; but I cannot force any other person to wear a mask.
  - mathstuf 2y ago
    > If you can, there’s absolutely no reason to force other people to mask anyway & you get the same benefit. Until the reaction is along the lines of "we're so afraid that people shouldn't be allowed to protect themselves": https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/11/nc-mask-bill-passes-house-heads-to-gov-coopers-desk/74062229007/ https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections...
    - mathstuf 2y ago
      It seems that since it was first reported, there is now an exception (in this instance at least) for those protecting themselves from communicable diseases.
- francisofascii 2y ago
  It is a fair question for what one should do if healthy. Most people today are not wearing masks when sick. So how much protection does an N95 give us vs not wearing a mask at all? If we are healthy, should we bother with masks?
  - buo 2y ago
    I am healthy, and intend to remain so -- I wear an N95 in all indoor spaces.
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      The single best prevention for viruses is an adequate amount of quality sleep.
      - sofixa 2y ago
        I'd love to see some research on how quality sleep helps with, say, Ebola.
        throwaway48476 2y ago
        Sleep is primarily preventative, as it plays a role in the immune system. Personally, I haven't been sick in many years and when other people are getting sick I just get tired and sleep a few more hours than usual.
- luxuryballs 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - avtar 2y ago
    In countries where public healthcare is a thing, why wouldn’t trying to limit the spread of something like Covid (that would inundate healthcare facilities) be part of a government’s business?
    - codr7 2y ago
      It would, but forcing the people to do anything shouldn't.
  - flawi 2y ago
    How is ensuring the well-being of the people "not any of the governments business"? What other end goal could a government possibly serve?
    - MrMan 2y ago
      [dead]
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      Lots of things are bad for the well being of the people but the government allows it, such as smoking and drinking. The government serves the will of the people, not their well being.
    - luxuryballs 2y ago
      that’s a big debate beyond the scope of this format but they at least should need to pass a law first before just taking power, otherwise you risk a situation where any time someone wants power they declare an emergency, or worse, cause one… imagine if they released a virus for example, knowing they can then shut down a society for whatever reason? it’s a real threat and shouldn’t be hand waved away in a time when powerful people openly claim the biggest threat to everyone is everyone
- harimau777 2y ago
  Much of the US refuses to wear masks. If masks only prevent the virus escaping but not entering, then it is only the selfish segment of society that is being protected.
  - matzab 2y ago
    > then it is only the selfish segment of society that is being protected But wouldn't that also protect the unselfish?
    - dghughes 2y ago
      Masks aren't worn only by infected people they are worn to protect against the virus. The virus exists whether you choose to wear a mask or not. But masks prevent an infected person from spreading it from coughing or from non-infected people from breathing it in.
      - peeters 2y ago
        I think you missed the comment that GP was responding to. They were responding to a claim that if masks only protect the virus from escaping, then masks only protect the selfish population.
      - t0bia_s 2y ago
        Did you ever read package leaflet of mask?
  - bowsamic 2y ago
    This is logically inconsistent
    - harimau777 2y ago
      How so?
      - peeters 2y ago
- hurrdurr57 2y ago
  >I never understood all the panic around it I think a good chunk of it was the CDC randomly changing its recommendations with no real explanation. At the beginning of the pandemic in the US, from January to May of 2020, there was a big campaign by the CDC to discourage people from wearing masks. I remember seeing various guest "medical experts" on the news claiming that people who wore masks were actually MORE LIKELY to contract COVID. At the same time, virtually every other country was encouraging or mandating masking. Then June of 2020 came around, masks quickly became encouraged and then mandated. Fauci only made vague and nonsensical statements like "the science changed!" and "we're moving at the speed of science!" to explain the abrupt change in policy. As if there was ever any scientific data to suggest that COVID-19 was not capable of airborne transmission or that masks wouldn't help limit said transmission. I get that there was a shortage of masks early on and the CDC was probably just trying to prevent panic buying (which occurred anyway, there were N95s selling on amazon for $40 per mask). The ridiculous claim that "masks make you more likely to get COVID" followed by a sudden requirement to wear said "COVID causing" masks completely destroyed public confidence and fueled all kinds of conspiracy theories.
  - vargr616 2y ago
    I saw people reuse the same mask for weeks, cloth or surgical. I think this is what some of the "experts" were referring to, that is even more dangerous than being maskless
  - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
    If you read the scientific literature on masking (focused on a flu pandemic) from before the pandemic, there was actually a lot of uncertainty about whether masks would help the general public. It's obvious that masks help if they're worn correctly, but the uncertainty was around the question of whether the general public would actually wear them properly. In hindsight, it seems obvious that mask-wearing should have been encouraged from day 1, but it somehow wasn't initially clear. One problem, I think, might be the emphasis on controlled randomized trials (RCT) in medicine, which are not always appropriate. Think of running an RCT on whether parachutes prevent death when falling from planes. We understand the physical mechanism underlying parachutes, so we know mechanistically why they prevent death from falling. Covid is a respiratory virus. Masks physically filter the virus out of the air you breathe in and out. You don't need a study to know that if worn correctly, they will reduce transmission. The real question is how to teach and encourage the public to wear masks properly, not whether masks work in principle.
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago
  For many ordinary citizens its just panic when asked to perform something not within the usual cultural norms. In japan this is normal behaviour, whenever you feel under the weather. Then there were obvious propaganda lies surrounding masks. One was that soldiers wear them- and i was a soldier, with a abc-mask and we "trained" marching with them and unscrewed them to get some air. Then some other world-unaware office worker suggested using them in freezers and cooled environments- which basically boils down to waterboarding yourself with condensing air-moisture. Good idea, pushed by panicy people into bad policy, communicated badly, resulting in massive resistance.
veidr 2y ago
LOL did you mean, "more selfishly"? Not trying to be snarky, tbh that is more important to me personally, too... but probably not in the broader sense...
justin66 2y ago
It's not the sort of membrane that only works when air is flowing in one direction. It won't protect you from getting goober in your eyes, but when it comes to inhalation, N95 material is great. It also helps that N95 masks tend to have better nosewires for fit, and specify real head straps, which makes them practically more dependable than some masks like most KF94s.

More importantly, how’s it block the inhalation of covid?

by mozman 2y ago

More importantly, how’s it block the inhalation of covid?

Why more importantly? For an airborne pandemic with very a long incubation period (if memory serves me right up to 2-3 weeks), lack of symptoms in many cases, preventing the spread is the number one priority on the level of a city/local/central government. Quarantines and lockdowns are good old tested ways, but infeasible for prolonged periods of time. Having everyone wear a mask and drastically reduce the spread was such a no brainer I never understood all the panic around it.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
"More importantly" because people seem to respond better to self-interest than they do to promoting the public good.
lettergram 2y ago
Not the original poster, but It’s probably more important because you can’t force people to wear masks. As such, the question is “can I protect myself?” If you can, there’s absolutely no reason to force other people to mask anyway & you get the same benefit. That’s the ideal situation for everyone.
- DonnyV 2y ago
  Yeah, I mean its not like we live in a community or anything. I should be able to drive as fast as I want through school zones.
  - thfuran 2y ago
    As long as you have a sturdy SUV with a big steel grill on the front, I don't see the issue.
- tivert 2y ago
  > Not the original poster, but It’s probably more important because you can’t force people to wear masks. Why can't "you" force people to wear masks? Depending on exactly who you mean by "you" (the particular poster, an abstract actor (individual or organization), etc.), what you say could be true to mostly false.
  - ycombobreaker 2y ago
    I can't speak for anyone else, but this can clearly be interpreted on a personal level. Every day I can do my best to influence public policy; but even if I am successful, a policy change takes time. In the meantime, I can decide whether I will wear a mask; but I cannot force any other person to wear a mask.
- mathstuf 2y ago
  > If you can, there’s absolutely no reason to force other people to mask anyway & you get the same benefit. Until the reaction is along the lines of "we're so afraid that people shouldn't be allowed to protect themselves": https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/11/nc-mask-bill-passes-house-heads-to-gov-coopers-desk/74062229007/ https://www.starnewsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections...
  - mathstuf 2y ago
    It seems that since it was first reported, there is now an exception (in this instance at least) for those protecting themselves from communicable diseases.
francisofascii 2y ago
It is a fair question for what one should do if healthy. Most people today are not wearing masks when sick. So how much protection does an N95 give us vs not wearing a mask at all? If we are healthy, should we bother with masks?
- buo 2y ago
  I am healthy, and intend to remain so -- I wear an N95 in all indoor spaces.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    The single best prevention for viruses is an adequate amount of quality sleep.
    - sofixa 2y ago
      I'd love to see some research on how quality sleep helps with, say, Ebola.
      - throwaway48476 2y ago
        Sleep is primarily preventative, as it plays a role in the immune system. Personally, I haven't been sick in many years and when other people are getting sick I just get tired and sleep a few more hours than usual.
luxuryballs 2y ago
[flagged]
- avtar 2y ago
  In countries where public healthcare is a thing, why wouldn’t trying to limit the spread of something like Covid (that would inundate healthcare facilities) be part of a government’s business?
  - codr7 2y ago
    It would, but forcing the people to do anything shouldn't.
- flawi 2y ago
  How is ensuring the well-being of the people "not any of the governments business"? What other end goal could a government possibly serve?
  - MrMan 2y ago
    [dead]
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    Lots of things are bad for the well being of the people but the government allows it, such as smoking and drinking. The government serves the will of the people, not their well being.
  - luxuryballs 2y ago
    that’s a big debate beyond the scope of this format but they at least should need to pass a law first before just taking power, otherwise you risk a situation where any time someone wants power they declare an emergency, or worse, cause one… imagine if they released a virus for example, knowing they can then shut down a society for whatever reason? it’s a real threat and shouldn’t be hand waved away in a time when powerful people openly claim the biggest threat to everyone is everyone
harimau777 2y ago
Much of the US refuses to wear masks. If masks only prevent the virus escaping but not entering, then it is only the selfish segment of society that is being protected.
- matzab 2y ago
  > then it is only the selfish segment of society that is being protected But wouldn't that also protect the unselfish?
  - dghughes 2y ago
    Masks aren't worn only by infected people they are worn to protect against the virus. The virus exists whether you choose to wear a mask or not. But masks prevent an infected person from spreading it from coughing or from non-infected people from breathing it in.
    - peeters 2y ago
      I think you missed the comment that GP was responding to. They were responding to a claim that if masks only protect the virus from escaping, then masks only protect the selfish population.
    - t0bia_s 2y ago
      Did you ever read package leaflet of mask?
- bowsamic 2y ago
  This is logically inconsistent
  - harimau777 2y ago
    How so?
    - peeters 2y ago
hurrdurr57 2y ago
>I never understood all the panic around it I think a good chunk of it was the CDC randomly changing its recommendations with no real explanation. At the beginning of the pandemic in the US, from January to May of 2020, there was a big campaign by the CDC to discourage people from wearing masks. I remember seeing various guest "medical experts" on the news claiming that people who wore masks were actually MORE LIKELY to contract COVID. At the same time, virtually every other country was encouraging or mandating masking. Then June of 2020 came around, masks quickly became encouraged and then mandated. Fauci only made vague and nonsensical statements like "the science changed!" and "we're moving at the speed of science!" to explain the abrupt change in policy. As if there was ever any scientific data to suggest that COVID-19 was not capable of airborne transmission or that masks wouldn't help limit said transmission. I get that there was a shortage of masks early on and the CDC was probably just trying to prevent panic buying (which occurred anyway, there were N95s selling on amazon for $40 per mask). The ridiculous claim that "masks make you more likely to get COVID" followed by a sudden requirement to wear said "COVID causing" masks completely destroyed public confidence and fueled all kinds of conspiracy theories.
- vargr616 2y ago
  I saw people reuse the same mask for weeks, cloth or surgical. I think this is what some of the "experts" were referring to, that is even more dangerous than being maskless
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  If you read the scientific literature on masking (focused on a flu pandemic) from before the pandemic, there was actually a lot of uncertainty about whether masks would help the general public. It's obvious that masks help if they're worn correctly, but the uncertainty was around the question of whether the general public would actually wear them properly. In hindsight, it seems obvious that mask-wearing should have been encouraged from day 1, but it somehow wasn't initially clear. One problem, I think, might be the emphasis on controlled randomized trials (RCT) in medicine, which are not always appropriate. Think of running an RCT on whether parachutes prevent death when falling from planes. We understand the physical mechanism underlying parachutes, so we know mechanistically why they prevent death from falling. Covid is a respiratory virus. Masks physically filter the virus out of the air you breathe in and out. You don't need a study to know that if worn correctly, they will reduce transmission. The real question is how to teach and encourage the public to wear masks properly, not whether masks work in principle.
InDubioProRubio 2y ago
For many ordinary citizens its just panic when asked to perform something not within the usual cultural norms. In japan this is normal behaviour, whenever you feel under the weather. Then there were obvious propaganda lies surrounding masks. One was that soldiers wear them- and i was a soldier, with a abc-mask and we "trained" marching with them and unscrewed them to get some air. Then some other world-unaware office worker suggested using them in freezers and cooled environments- which basically boils down to waterboarding yourself with condensing air-moisture. Good idea, pushed by panicy people into bad policy, communicated badly, resulting in massive resistance.

veidr 2y ago

LOL did you mean, "more selfishly"? Not trying to be snarky, tbh that is more important to me personally, too... but probably not in the broader sense...

justin66 2y ago

It's not the sort of membrane that only works when air is flowing in one direction. It won't protect you from getting goober in your eyes, but when it comes to inhalation, N95 material is great. It also helps that N95 masks tend to have better nosewires for fit, and specify real head straps, which makes them practically more dependable than some masks like most KF94s.