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> For years, ARM wanted to get its CPU instruction set into notebooks and desktop PCs. Now, for the first time, there is a realistic opportunity and ARM is torp

> For years, ARM wanted to get its CPU instruction set into notebooks and desktop PCs. Now, for the first time, there is a realistic opportunity and ARM is torpedoing it to get a bigger slice of the pie. What’s with the heavy handed pro-Qualcomm/anti-ARM bias in this news piece? My interpretation is obvious breach of contract by Qualcomm. Seems very cut and dry from the facts laid out in this very same article. I have no skin in this race, just thought it was odd.

bluescrn 2y ago
> What’s with the heavy handed pro-Qualcomm/anti-ARM bias in this news piece? Pro shiny new devices and moving Windows into an ARM future, vs. Anti throwing away loads of work/tech over IP squabbles/greed (whoever is responsible for it)?
- netsharc 2y ago
  From the environmental point of view, it's incredible that they want these machines, built with so much energy and resources (e.g. a chip fab uses a lot of water [1], and a laptop is more than just chips), to just be destroyed... [1] https://www.theverge.com/22628925/water-semiconductor-shortage-arizona-drought https://www.theverge.com/22628925/water-semiconductor-shorta...
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    Can't let anyone know/feel how we've been drip-fed improvements for personal enrichment
  - bluescrn 2y ago
    Perfectly normal behaviour these days, sadly: https://x.com/RDKLInc/status/1743460577391808825 https://x.com/RDKLInc/status/1743460577391808825 Not to mention the planned obsolecence of non-upgradeable machines with near-unreplaceable battery packs (a very popular 'dark pattern' these days in device design, clearly aimed at encouraging people to replace the entire device more frequently)
Tuna-Fish 2y ago
> Seems very cut and dry from the facts laid out in this very same article. It's not quite that simple. Qualcomm has a separate license from ARM that allows doing all the things they are currently doing with Nuvia IP. ARM claims that this license does not cover Nuvia IP, and that since Nuvia broke the terms of their license, all that IP needs to be destroyed. Qualcomm claims that they bought the IP separately from any license, and that they can just continue using it under the terms of their own license, and that no term in that license prevents Qualcomm from using the Nuvia IP under it. The issue is at least murky enough that no court has granted ARM an injunction over it.
- wyldfire 2y ago
  If I had to guess, Qualcomm negotiated their architectural license before revealing their acquisition of nuvia. And maybe the nuvia license gives more favorable royalties than the Qualcomm one?
  - rcxdude 2y ago
    Qualcomm probably negotiated their architectural license before Nuvia existed: They had at least one (for an older arch) in 1998!
- fingerlocks 2y ago
  That’s a crucial bit of information that was omitted. Very informative, thanks!
rcxdude 2y ago
The new ARM laptops are looking very promising: similar to the new ARM macbooks. So PC tech enthusiasts/media are gonna be on Qualcomm's side here, at least while it's framed as 'ARM is trying to stop these from actually being sold'.
jillesvangurp 2y ago
Both sides are playing hardball. The likely outcome is probably a settlement and all the legal wrestling is just negotiation tactics. We're talking about two companies whose primary business model is licensing intellectual property; so they both know how to play this game very well. Neither Qualcomm nor ARM directly manufacturers or sells products; they both make money from licensing stuff to third parties. And it looks like Qualcomm is cutting some corners there and is now putting their customers on the spot with this. Which no doubt is not going down well with those. So, my guess is that Qualcomm will try to eventually fix this by throwing money at it and striking some deal with ARM. The question is just going to be how much. ARM is just twisting their arm (no pun intended) with this. But I agree that at face value they are well within their rights to escalate this. And given that their core business is selling ARM licenses, making sure that they get their money from Qualcomm kind of is their core business.
Havoc 2y ago
> My interpretation is obvious breach of contract by Qualcomm I’d be inclined to say the opposite based on the German article linked in this articles. Qualcomm has its own architecture license in addition to the now expired Nuvia one and can’t really figure out what arm is objecting to precisely aside from wanting money https://www.heise.de/news/ARM-verklagt-Qualcomm-wegen-Lizenz-und-Markenrechtsverletzung-7249968.html https://www.heise.de/news/ARM-verklagt-Qualcomm-wegen-Lizenz...

bluescrn 2y ago

> What’s with the heavy handed pro-Qualcomm/anti-ARM bias in this news piece? Pro shiny new devices and moving Windows into an ARM future, vs. Anti throwing away loads of work/tech over IP squabbles/greed (whoever is responsible for it)?

netsharc 2y ago
From the environmental point of view, it's incredible that they want these machines, built with so much energy and resources (e.g. a chip fab uses a lot of water [1], and a laptop is more than just chips), to just be destroyed... [1] https://www.theverge.com/22628925/water-semiconductor-shortage-arizona-drought https://www.theverge.com/22628925/water-semiconductor-shorta...
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  Can't let anyone know/feel how we've been drip-fed improvements for personal enrichment
- bluescrn 2y ago
  Perfectly normal behaviour these days, sadly: https://x.com/RDKLInc/status/1743460577391808825 https://x.com/RDKLInc/status/1743460577391808825 Not to mention the planned obsolecence of non-upgradeable machines with near-unreplaceable battery packs (a very popular 'dark pattern' these days in device design, clearly aimed at encouraging people to replace the entire device more frequently)

Tuna-Fish 2y ago

> Seems very cut and dry from the facts laid out in this very same article. It's not quite that simple. Qualcomm has a separate license from ARM that allows doing all the things they are currently doing with Nuvia IP. ARM claims that this license does not cover Nuvia IP, and that since Nuvia broke the terms of their license, all that IP needs to be destroyed. Qualcomm claims that they bought the IP separately from any license, and that they can just continue using it under the terms of their own license, and that no term in that license prevents Qualcomm from using the Nuvia IP under it. The issue is at least murky enough that no court has granted ARM an injunction over it.

wyldfire 2y ago
If I had to guess, Qualcomm negotiated their architectural license before revealing their acquisition of nuvia. And maybe the nuvia license gives more favorable royalties than the Qualcomm one?
- rcxdude 2y ago
  Qualcomm probably negotiated their architectural license before Nuvia existed: They had at least one (for an older arch) in 1998!
fingerlocks 2y ago
That’s a crucial bit of information that was omitted. Very informative, thanks!

rcxdude 2y ago

The new ARM laptops are looking very promising: similar to the new ARM macbooks. So PC tech enthusiasts/media are gonna be on Qualcomm's side here, at least while it's framed as 'ARM is trying to stop these from actually being sold'.

jillesvangurp 2y ago

Both sides are playing hardball. The likely outcome is probably a settlement and all the legal wrestling is just negotiation tactics. We're talking about two companies whose primary business model is licensing intellectual property; so they both know how to play this game very well. Neither Qualcomm nor ARM directly manufacturers or sells products; they both make money from licensing stuff to third parties. And it looks like Qualcomm is cutting some corners there and is now putting their customers on the spot with this. Which no doubt is not going down well with those. So, my guess is that Qualcomm will try to eventually fix this by throwing money at it and striking some deal with ARM. The question is just going to be how much. ARM is just twisting their arm (no pun intended) with this. But I agree that at face value they are well within their rights to escalate this. And given that their core business is selling ARM licenses, making sure that they get their money from Qualcomm kind of is their core business.

Havoc 2y ago

> My interpretation is obvious breach of contract by Qualcomm I’d be inclined to say the opposite based on the German article linked in this articles. Qualcomm has its own architecture license in addition to the now expired Nuvia one and can’t really figure out what arm is objecting to precisely aside from wanting money https://www.heise.de/news/ARM-verklagt-Qualcomm-wegen-Lizenz-und-Markenrechtsverletzung-7249968.html https://www.heise.de/news/ARM-verklagt-Qualcomm-wegen-Lizenz...