4 ms·

After reading, it appears the humble avocado might be better farmed vertically, using hydroponics, in region(s) with sufficient access to fresh water, and somew

After reading, it appears the humble avocado might be better farmed vertically, using hydroponics, in region(s) with sufficient access to fresh water, and somewhere with the rule of law. It appears to be as much of a "resource curse" as the drug trade is/was to Michoacán.

rob74 2y ago
The problem is just that avocados farmed without regulatory oversight on illegally deforested (or otherwise occupied) land in regions with insufficient rule of law will be cheaper - same as with palm oil, marijuana (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-11/illegal-marijuana-grows-have-overrun-the-california-desert https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-11/illegal-...) and several other products...
- h0l0cube 2y ago
  People would pay extra for ‘conflict-free’ avocados I bet
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    We have a similar conundrum for coffee, and the "this coffee is ethically good" handling is just complicated. It works at super small scale, for extra invested people. The bigger the scale becomes, the murkier it is, and at some point a vendor is just selling a label with not much reality behind it.
    - h0l0cube 2y ago
      Are you talking ‘ethical fair trade’? Because there’s definitely reputable and properly audited designations in this space (edit: namely the green and blue Fairtrade International and Rainforest Alliance, all the imitation marks are junk)
      - makeitdouble 2y ago
        The fact that we need to check this point is one of the issue. There's a bunch of other organisations, in particular some are built by brands, and of course in a way that advantages them. Then there's coffee that has absolutely no audit and no designation, mostly because it's produced at low scale (the farm manages its own international sales in a way or another) and is extremely good on an ethical POV but can't be bothered with a registrtion authority.
        h0l0cube 2y ago
        If I see the green and blue Fairtrade® logo, I know it's been independently audited, otherwise I just assume the worst. There's no way to get around independent audits and a reputable trademark that signifies the product has been certified. The main issue is that most people aren't willing to pay the premium on super slim margin products (e.g., tea, bananas), but certainly there's enough people who pay a premium for coffee. I have a hunch that there's a premium market for avocados, at least in the more expensive dining and grocery establishments.
        makeitdouble 2y ago
        To me the main issue is that it forces a middle men and auditor in all parts of the business, when nowadays we can get away with smaller structures and independent producers directly accessing end(ish)-consumers. For coffee, that can mean an Colombian farm directly making a deal with a small London roaster. It was unrealistic 20~30 years ago, but this kind of match making is doable now, and a farm that gets access to the market in that way won't bother to pay and keep intricates records of absolutely everything they do for a third party organization that brings to them nothing to the table. Another example of this is producers using the Fair Trade label to pass the lower quality goods at a guaranteed price ,and in parallel negociate higher prices for the more luxurious goods [0]. In that example the producer wins so I'd see it as a decent situation, but the brand perception getting hit might be problematic long term. All in all, I think there's a movement to provide the transparency at the small scale level: a coffee roaster can showcase which independents farm makes their specialty coffee, and the farm negociate deals against a small set of small roasters instead of a giant conglomerate or the whole international market, making it more balanced as they can come up with a decent arrangement that benefits both. That will never work for Starbucks or Nespresso, but for specialty coffee it seems to be a good model. [0] https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_problem_with_fair_trade_coffee https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_problem_with_fair_trade_...
throwup238 2y ago
How do you vertically farm a tree? Isn’t that just called planting it in the ground? It grows vertically already.

rob74 2y ago

The problem is just that avocados farmed without regulatory oversight on illegally deforested (or otherwise occupied) land in regions with insufficient rule of law will be cheaper - same as with palm oil, marijuana (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-11/illegal-marijuana-grows-have-overrun-the-california-desert https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-11/illegal-...) and several other products...

h0l0cube 2y ago
People would pay extra for ‘conflict-free’ avocados I bet
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  We have a similar conundrum for coffee, and the "this coffee is ethically good" handling is just complicated. It works at super small scale, for extra invested people. The bigger the scale becomes, the murkier it is, and at some point a vendor is just selling a label with not much reality behind it.
  - h0l0cube 2y ago
    Are you talking ‘ethical fair trade’? Because there’s definitely reputable and properly audited designations in this space (edit: namely the green and blue Fairtrade International and Rainforest Alliance, all the imitation marks are junk)
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      The fact that we need to check this point is one of the issue. There's a bunch of other organisations, in particular some are built by brands, and of course in a way that advantages them. Then there's coffee that has absolutely no audit and no designation, mostly because it's produced at low scale (the farm manages its own international sales in a way or another) and is extremely good on an ethical POV but can't be bothered with a registrtion authority.
      - h0l0cube 2y ago
        If I see the green and blue Fairtrade® logo, I know it's been independently audited, otherwise I just assume the worst. There's no way to get around independent audits and a reputable trademark that signifies the product has been certified. The main issue is that most people aren't willing to pay the premium on super slim margin products (e.g., tea, bananas), but certainly there's enough people who pay a premium for coffee. I have a hunch that there's a premium market for avocados, at least in the more expensive dining and grocery establishments.
        makeitdouble 2y ago
        To me the main issue is that it forces a middle men and auditor in all parts of the business, when nowadays we can get away with smaller structures and independent producers directly accessing end(ish)-consumers. For coffee, that can mean an Colombian farm directly making a deal with a small London roaster. It was unrealistic 20~30 years ago, but this kind of match making is doable now, and a farm that gets access to the market in that way won't bother to pay and keep intricates records of absolutely everything they do for a third party organization that brings to them nothing to the table. Another example of this is producers using the Fair Trade label to pass the lower quality goods at a guaranteed price ,and in parallel negociate higher prices for the more luxurious goods [0]. In that example the producer wins so I'd see it as a decent situation, but the brand perception getting hit might be problematic long term. All in all, I think there's a movement to provide the transparency at the small scale level: a coffee roaster can showcase which independents farm makes their specialty coffee, and the farm negociate deals against a small set of small roasters instead of a giant conglomerate or the whole international market, making it more balanced as they can come up with a decent arrangement that benefits both. That will never work for Starbucks or Nespresso, but for specialty coffee it seems to be a good model. [0] https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_problem_with_fair_trade_coffee https://ssir.org/articles/entry/the_problem_with_fair_trade_...

throwup238 2y ago

How do you vertically farm a tree? Isn’t that just called planting it in the ground? It grows vertically already.