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I have to admit I moved from California to Ireland in 2013 and... I regret it. Irish salaries are a fraction of those in the US (even moreso as the Euro weakens

I have to admit I moved from California to Ireland in 2013 and... I regret it. Irish salaries are a fraction of those in the US (even moreso as the Euro weakens), mortgages harder to obtain (and the houses are generally low quality), and it's not exactly a place that embraces risk taking. Though maybe if California continues to shoot itself in the foot w.r.t. housing more emigrants will bring new ideas to these places. It was fun (and I like having a second passport now that I'm naturalised) but the opportunity cost was easily $2 million+ and my career is forever stunted. It also is a one-way move. Once you're gone too long you'll never be able to compete with your peers for housing in the bay.

microtonal 2y ago
Strange, I feel like that it doesn’t matter anymore where you live because there are many more remote jobs than 10 or 20 years ago. And tech salaries give much more purchasing power outside SV.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  Right, but I wasn't making bay area salaries, I was making Irish salaries at first, then a split between Irish and US when I was working remote. This means €65k instead of $165k. On top of that, I had one lucky break (Okta bought Auth0) and while the stock was nice, it was all taxed at 52%. The upshot of all this is that over the course of ten years I would almost certainly have made a couple million more (especially if I had invested decently or bought a house) than I did in Ireland, and while I like living in Europe (though not Ireland, I couldn't wait to leave by the end), being able to FIRE by 40 would have been better.
  - syrgian 2y ago
    2013 was a quite bad moment to move into Ireland. It was very hard hit by the crisis. Right now salaries are way better: https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-dublin-area https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater... I moved in 2020 and it has been the best decision I could have made. Taking into account everything (savings rate, safety, working hours, job security, politics, closeness to my home country in Europe) it is the best place I could be by far. All other places trade off too much in exchange of something else. For example, I would have better savings rate in California (maybe 60-100k instead of 30-50k a year), but it would be worse in every other metric, except perhaps weather, although I dislike hot weather.
munksbeer 2y ago
I'm always surprised at someone born with a foot up advantage, voluntarily moving from California to somewhere like Ireland. The weather is atrocious, salaries low, cost of living very high, etc. Sure, it's a fun adventure, but maybe just for 6 moths to a year.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  A close friend of mine did this about 25 years ago, and he considers it one of the best things he's ever done. His description of Ireland is "if you ignore the weather, this place is as close to a paradise as I'm likely to see". It may not be for everybody (nothing is), but it is for some.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    I loved it for five years but after having kids it was horrible, for me at least. Holland has been vastly superior. In 2013 I had a flat across from Dublin castle for €800 a month and the craic was, indeed, mighty.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  If you’re born in California it’s easy not to realise how special it is.
  - more_corn 2y ago
    The weather is nice. Economic opportunity is crazy good, network effects are weirdly magical. Housing crisis is fucked. Traffic is fucked. Government is excessively bossy. SF planning department is corrupt and pathological. I left and don’t regret it one bit. Different strokes for different folks.
    - processing 2y ago
      I just came across a comment of yours (1 yr ago) on setting up an LLC in California as I'm about to pull the trigger/looking for recommendations on who to choose for formation/setting up etc You mentioned not to do it in SF! This thread is kinda of connected - do you mind elaborating on why not to setup your LLC in SF?

microtonal 2y ago

Strange, I feel like that it doesn’t matter anymore where you live because there are many more remote jobs than 10 or 20 years ago. And tech salaries give much more purchasing power outside SV.

CalRobert 2y ago
Right, but I wasn't making bay area salaries, I was making Irish salaries at first, then a split between Irish and US when I was working remote. This means €65k instead of $165k. On top of that, I had one lucky break (Okta bought Auth0) and while the stock was nice, it was all taxed at 52%. The upshot of all this is that over the course of ten years I would almost certainly have made a couple million more (especially if I had invested decently or bought a house) than I did in Ireland, and while I like living in Europe (though not Ireland, I couldn't wait to leave by the end), being able to FIRE by 40 would have been better.
- syrgian 2y ago
  2013 was a quite bad moment to move into Ireland. It was very hard hit by the crisis. Right now salaries are way better: https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-dublin-area https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater... I moved in 2020 and it has been the best decision I could have made. Taking into account everything (savings rate, safety, working hours, job security, politics, closeness to my home country in Europe) it is the best place I could be by far. All other places trade off too much in exchange of something else. For example, I would have better savings rate in California (maybe 60-100k instead of 30-50k a year), but it would be worse in every other metric, except perhaps weather, although I dislike hot weather.

munksbeer 2y ago

I'm always surprised at someone born with a foot up advantage, voluntarily moving from California to somewhere like Ireland. The weather is atrocious, salaries low, cost of living very high, etc. Sure, it's a fun adventure, but maybe just for 6 moths to a year.

JohnFen 2y ago
A close friend of mine did this about 25 years ago, and he considers it one of the best things he's ever done. His description of Ireland is "if you ignore the weather, this place is as close to a paradise as I'm likely to see". It may not be for everybody (nothing is), but it is for some.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  I loved it for five years but after having kids it was horrible, for me at least. Holland has been vastly superior. In 2013 I had a flat across from Dublin castle for €800 a month and the craic was, indeed, mighty.
CalRobert 2y ago
If you’re born in California it’s easy not to realise how special it is.
- more_corn 2y ago
  The weather is nice. Economic opportunity is crazy good, network effects are weirdly magical. Housing crisis is fucked. Traffic is fucked. Government is excessively bossy. SF planning department is corrupt and pathological. I left and don’t regret it one bit. Different strokes for different folks.
  - processing 2y ago
    I just came across a comment of yours (1 yr ago) on setting up an LLC in California as I'm about to pull the trigger/looking for recommendations on who to choose for formation/setting up etc You mentioned not to do it in SF! This thread is kinda of connected - do you mind elaborating on why not to setup your LLC in SF?