6 ms·

Silicon Valley salaries are shrinking, leaving workers in the lurch

47 points by jarsin 2y ago

caturopath 2y ago
I feel for anyone living in the Bay Area without a very high-paying job, but I'm not sure I'm all that worried about the nation's marketing professionals' salaries, as problems go.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
29athrowaway 2y ago
The factors IMO: 1) Lower entry barrier to software engineering (no need to learn about memory management, multi-threading, networking, etc.) 2) More resources for self-taught engineers 3) Coding camps 4) More STEM professionals changing fields 5) Remote workers 6) Immigration 7) More people see software engineering as a viable career 8) Generative AI 9) Higher interest rates
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- basil-rash 2y ago
  Number 9 is more than sufficient alone. Everything else is ancillary.
- dboreham 2y ago
  And yet... Still can't find clueful people. But probably I mean people who will: learn about memory management, multi-threading, networking, etc
- WalterSear 2y ago
  The article didn't discuss engineers at all.
dangus 2y ago
Rents are falling as well. It would probably be better for the Bay Area in the long term if both salaries and cost of living cooled down to be a little more sane and at least a little bit comparable to the rest of the country. If I were to guess, a whole lot of the tech industry figured out that they don’t really need their employees to by physically located in the Bay Area and they can save a boatload on costs that way. There used to be a benefit to having physical connection in an industry among professionals but I think that has been replaced by robust online chat software and comminities, dirt cheap flights for conferences and meetups, and other shifts away from the importance of physical presence. https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/bay-area-rental-prices-down-18374454.php https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/bay-area-rental-pr...
shiroiushi 2y ago
The girl who went to grad school in Ireland had the right idea, partly. She says the work-life balance is better there, and she had an easy time finding a job. But then she says she'd like to come back "home" to California. The Bay Area isn't going to magically become affordable anytime soon, so her best course of action is to stay in Ireland, a place that has apparently welcomed her and given her an opportunity for a better life than what California offers. Ironic that 100 or so years ago, the roles were reversed.
- spoonjim 2y ago
  [flagged]
- CalRobert 2y ago
  I have to admit I moved from California to Ireland in 2013 and... I regret it. Irish salaries are a fraction of those in the US (even moreso as the Euro weakens), mortgages harder to obtain (and the houses are generally low quality), and it's not exactly a place that embraces risk taking. Though maybe if California continues to shoot itself in the foot w.r.t. housing more emigrants will bring new ideas to these places. It was fun (and I like having a second passport now that I'm naturalised) but the opportunity cost was easily $2 million+ and my career is forever stunted. It also is a one-way move. Once you're gone too long you'll never be able to compete with your peers for housing in the bay.
  - microtonal 2y ago
    Strange, I feel like that it doesn’t matter anymore where you live because there are many more remote jobs than 10 or 20 years ago. And tech salaries give much more purchasing power outside SV.
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      Right, but I wasn't making bay area salaries, I was making Irish salaries at first, then a split between Irish and US when I was working remote. This means €65k instead of $165k. On top of that, I had one lucky break (Okta bought Auth0) and while the stock was nice, it was all taxed at 52%. The upshot of all this is that over the course of ten years I would almost certainly have made a couple million more (especially if I had invested decently or bought a house) than I did in Ireland, and while I like living in Europe (though not Ireland, I couldn't wait to leave by the end), being able to FIRE by 40 would have been better.
WalterBright 2y ago
> Salaries in the tech sector in the Bay Area decreased by 15% While the article talks about tech jobs, the actual examples given are: > an educated, experienced marketing professional > she landed some interviews for jobs in tech and public relations jobs which are not tech jobs.
- taesu 2y ago
  Ouch, amen
- cortesoft 2y ago
  Most people who work in tech aren't what would consider "tech" workers, but they are still part of the tech sector.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - antisthenes 2y ago
    Well, do you want a car that says "Taxi" or do you actually want to get to your destination?
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  Industries/sectors are not occupational groups, though they sometimes share names, and particular industries will have specific occupational groups in which are more common to the industry than in the market as a whole. They are explicitly talking about jobs in the tech industry/sector, not about jobs in tech-related occupational categories. Not skipping over key words avoids missing meaning.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Compensation for programming and engineering jobs is not connected to compensation for PR jobs. Compensation is based on what kind of job it is, not what sector it is in. Mushing the two together makes for a meaningless article. If you want a tech salary, get a STEM education and apply for a tech job.
keeptrying 2y ago
Tech jobs are going to move out of the bay at the larger companies. Companies are being rewarded for being efficient in the stock market and CEOs are taking heed.
- RestlessMind 2y ago
  More like there will be a bifurcation. Newer and smaller companies will embrace remote jobs. Older companies with an established in-office culture? They have already ditched remote in favor of RTO. > Companies are being rewarded for being efficient in the stock market Eh really? NVDA, AAPL, GOOG, META, TSLA etc are the big winners and all of them have mandated RTO with jobs situated in SFBA. I don't seem them moving out anytime soon.
jowdones 2y ago
[flagged]
- Glyptodon 2y ago
  TBH I doubt the median eng salary, all levels combined, is $250k to begin with, it's got to be lower than the average, right? But I maybe I'm just not informed.
  - Rebelgecko 2y ago
    It's funny they mentioned police officers, because $250k is right about the median TC for a police officer in San Jose (just a regular officer, not including captains or detectives or deputy Chiefs) Source: https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?a=san-jose&q=Police+officer&y=2023&page=9 https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?a=san-jos...
- photonbeam 2y ago
  I know a police officer, they work in redwood city but have to live in petaluma to get enough space on their wage. I can not imagine dealing with that commute each day. Each time I talk to him its in the back of my mind
  - leoqa 2y ago
    Could work 3x12 with a 4x12 thrown in, meaning they only commute 3 times a week. they may also have a take home or shift change is outside of peak.
drivebycomment 2y ago
I did a quick sampling of a few different levels at the largest employers on levels.fyi and didn't notice any significant drop at a given level. It could be that there's less senior level openings/hirings, which could lead to the drop in average. I am also not sure how objective / comprehensive the data from "woman impact tech" is, since they seem to be more of an advocacy group (with a mission that includes "We’re here to achieve equity in tech"), even though I can't imagine why they would bias their data one way or another.
RomanPushkin 2y ago
True. I'm getting offers I was getting back in ~2018. I will stay here anyways. There are some ways to mitigate that shrinking, which are pretty well known...
- antisthenes 2y ago
  Quiet quitting and having a side gig?
strix_varius 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
MichaelMug 2y ago
How accurate is the chart titled "Top 20 U.S. Cities for Tech Salaries"? Houston, TX seems a bit high.
jacknews 2y ago
The salaries in the city table seem like a fantasy to me, with $180k at the low end of the scale. Albeit I'm a western expat in a supposedly impoverished developing nation (no shortage of very expensive cars here though!); local salaries for senior devs top out at 24k/pa, juniors as low as $5k/pa, and if I look on the freelancer sites, there are many job 'offers' as low as $5-10/hour; I don't think I've seen any ruby/rails type roles above about $50/hr recently, and any near that level get 10s or even 100s of applicants. But if those big US salaries are being eaten by rent, there's the real problem. I'd happily take one of those 200k+ roles, remote, for half the price.

47 points by jarsin 2y ago

I feel for anyone living in the Bay Area without a very high-paying job, but I'm not sure I'm all that worried about the nation's marketing professionals' salaries, as problems go.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

29athrowaway 2y ago

The factors IMO: 1) Lower entry barrier to software engineering (no need to learn about memory management, multi-threading, networking, etc.) 2) More resources for self-taught engineers 3) Coding camps 4) More STEM professionals changing fields 5) Remote workers 6) Immigration 7) More people see software engineering as a viable career 8) Generative AI 9) Higher interest rates

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
basil-rash 2y ago
Number 9 is more than sufficient alone. Everything else is ancillary.
dboreham 2y ago
And yet... Still can't find clueful people. But probably I mean people who will: learn about memory management, multi-threading, networking, etc
WalterSear 2y ago
The article didn't discuss engineers at all.

dangus 2y ago

Rents are falling as well. It would probably be better for the Bay Area in the long term if both salaries and cost of living cooled down to be a little more sane and at least a little bit comparable to the rest of the country. If I were to guess, a whole lot of the tech industry figured out that they don’t really need their employees to by physically located in the Bay Area and they can save a boatload on costs that way. There used to be a benefit to having physical connection in an industry among professionals but I think that has been replaced by robust online chat software and comminities, dirt cheap flights for conferences and meetups, and other shifts away from the importance of physical presence. https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/bay-area-rental-prices-down-18374454.php https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/bay-area-rental-pr...

shiroiushi 2y ago

The girl who went to grad school in Ireland had the right idea, partly. She says the work-life balance is better there, and she had an easy time finding a job. But then she says she'd like to come back "home" to California. The Bay Area isn't going to magically become affordable anytime soon, so her best course of action is to stay in Ireland, a place that has apparently welcomed her and given her an opportunity for a better life than what California offers. Ironic that 100 or so years ago, the roles were reversed.

spoonjim 2y ago
[flagged]
CalRobert 2y ago
I have to admit I moved from California to Ireland in 2013 and... I regret it. Irish salaries are a fraction of those in the US (even moreso as the Euro weakens), mortgages harder to obtain (and the houses are generally low quality), and it's not exactly a place that embraces risk taking. Though maybe if California continues to shoot itself in the foot w.r.t. housing more emigrants will bring new ideas to these places. It was fun (and I like having a second passport now that I'm naturalised) but the opportunity cost was easily $2 million+ and my career is forever stunted. It also is a one-way move. Once you're gone too long you'll never be able to compete with your peers for housing in the bay.
- microtonal 2y ago
  Strange, I feel like that it doesn’t matter anymore where you live because there are many more remote jobs than 10 or 20 years ago. And tech salaries give much more purchasing power outside SV.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    Right, but I wasn't making bay area salaries, I was making Irish salaries at first, then a split between Irish and US when I was working remote. This means €65k instead of $165k. On top of that, I had one lucky break (Okta bought Auth0) and while the stock was nice, it was all taxed at 52%. The upshot of all this is that over the course of ten years I would almost certainly have made a couple million more (especially if I had invested decently or bought a house) than I did in Ireland, and while I like living in Europe (though not Ireland, I couldn't wait to leave by the end), being able to FIRE by 40 would have been better.

WalterBright 2y ago

> Salaries in the tech sector in the Bay Area decreased by 15% While the article talks about tech jobs, the actual examples given are: > an educated, experienced marketing professional > she landed some interviews for jobs in tech and public relations jobs which are not tech jobs.

taesu 2y ago
Ouch, amen
cortesoft 2y ago
Most people who work in tech aren't what would consider "tech" workers, but they are still part of the tech sector.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- antisthenes 2y ago
  Well, do you want a car that says "Taxi" or do you actually want to get to your destination?
dragonwriter 2y ago
Industries/sectors are not occupational groups, though they sometimes share names, and particular industries will have specific occupational groups in which are more common to the industry than in the market as a whole. They are explicitly talking about jobs in the tech industry/sector, not about jobs in tech-related occupational categories. Not skipping over key words avoids missing meaning.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Compensation for programming and engineering jobs is not connected to compensation for PR jobs. Compensation is based on what kind of job it is, not what sector it is in. Mushing the two together makes for a meaningless article. If you want a tech salary, get a STEM education and apply for a tech job.

keeptrying 2y ago

Tech jobs are going to move out of the bay at the larger companies. Companies are being rewarded for being efficient in the stock market and CEOs are taking heed.

RestlessMind 2y ago
More like there will be a bifurcation. Newer and smaller companies will embrace remote jobs. Older companies with an established in-office culture? They have already ditched remote in favor of RTO. > Companies are being rewarded for being efficient in the stock market Eh really? NVDA, AAPL, GOOG, META, TSLA etc are the big winners and all of them have mandated RTO with jobs situated in SFBA. I don't seem them moving out anytime soon.

jowdones 2y ago

[flagged]

Glyptodon 2y ago
TBH I doubt the median eng salary, all levels combined, is $250k to begin with, it's got to be lower than the average, right? But I maybe I'm just not informed.
- Rebelgecko 2y ago
  It's funny they mentioned police officers, because $250k is right about the median TC for a police officer in San Jose (just a regular officer, not including captains or detectives or deputy Chiefs) Source: https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?a=san-jose&q=Police+officer&y=2023&page=9 https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?a=san-jos...
photonbeam 2y ago
I know a police officer, they work in redwood city but have to live in petaluma to get enough space on their wage. I can not imagine dealing with that commute each day. Each time I talk to him its in the back of my mind
- leoqa 2y ago
  Could work 3x12 with a 4x12 thrown in, meaning they only commute 3 times a week. they may also have a take home or shift change is outside of peak.

drivebycomment 2y ago

I did a quick sampling of a few different levels at the largest employers on levels.fyi and didn't notice any significant drop at a given level. It could be that there's less senior level openings/hirings, which could lead to the drop in average. I am also not sure how objective / comprehensive the data from "woman impact tech" is, since they seem to be more of an advocacy group (with a mission that includes "We’re here to achieve equity in tech"), even though I can't imagine why they would bias their data one way or another.

RomanPushkin 2y ago

True. I'm getting offers I was getting back in ~2018. I will stay here anyways. There are some ways to mitigate that shrinking, which are pretty well known...

antisthenes 2y ago
Quiet quitting and having a side gig?

strix_varius 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

MichaelMug 2y ago

How accurate is the chart titled "Top 20 U.S. Cities for Tech Salaries"? Houston, TX seems a bit high.

jacknews 2y ago

The salaries in the city table seem like a fantasy to me, with $180k at the low end of the scale. Albeit I'm a western expat in a supposedly impoverished developing nation (no shortage of very expensive cars here though!); local salaries for senior devs top out at 24k/pa, juniors as low as $5k/pa, and if I look on the freelancer sites, there are many job 'offers' as low as $5-10/hour; I don't think I've seen any ruby/rails type roles above about $50/hr recently, and any near that level get 10s or even 100s of applicants. But if those big US salaries are being eaten by rent, there's the real problem. I'd happily take one of those 200k+ roles, remote, for half the price.