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You almost caught up to Dart. - Built for embedded devices and already has RISC-V support - Already has WASM was a compilation target - Not just an LSP but a

by mdhb 2y ago

You almost caught up to Dart. - Built for embedded devices and already has RISC-V support - Already has WASM was a compilation target - Not just an LSP but amazing VSCode tooling - Native C, C++, Java, Rust and JavaScript interop and a .NET bridge is in the works it seems. - Typed "throws" - Static linking (in development) - Data-race free by default Unique features to Swift: - Distributed actors for concurrency that run on distant machines. (This is doable but not native to the language) - non-copy RAII generic types (not actually sure what this is so I assume it’s not in Dart)

almostgotcaught 2y ago
> - Native C, C++, Java, Rust and JavaScript interop dart doesn't do C++ interop
manmal 2y ago
Isn’t “data-race free” in Dart achieved by just not really sharing mutable memory between isolates? Probably because the web version needs to map isolates to web workers, right?
- mdhb 2y ago
  For now but this is in the pipeline too. https://github.com/dart-lang/language/blob/main/working/333%20-%20shared%20memory%20multithreading/proposal.md https://github.com/dart-lang/language/blob/main/working/333%...
  - manmal 2y ago
    Great writeup, and I love that the authors looked at a lot of other languages. The solution section on how to prevent races is a bit light still - I‘m curious how they will solve this. I think there will need to be exceptions to a strict race-free model eto not take away from dart‘s current capabilities, and without forcing people into something like a borrow checker. Swift has `@unchecked Sendable` which lets you tell the compiler "I promise I'll take care myself to keep everything in there race-free". What I‘ve been missing in Swift are tools that let me add safety _within_ such @unchecked Sendables. There's the Swift Atomics lib: https://www.swift.org/blog/swift-atomics/ https://www.swift.org/blog/swift-atomics/, but its quite limited in its capabilities. So for now, I find myself reaching for tools provided by the community, like pointfree's LockIsolated: https://github.com/pointfreeco/swift-concurrency-extras/blob/main/Sources/ConcurrencyExtras/LockIsolated.swift https://github.com/pointfreeco/swift-concurrency-extras/blob....

by mdhb 2y ago

almostgotcaught 2y ago

> - Native C, C++, Java, Rust and JavaScript interop dart doesn't do C++ interop

manmal 2y ago

Isn’t “data-race free” in Dart achieved by just not really sharing mutable memory between isolates? Probably because the web version needs to map isolates to web workers, right?

mdhb 2y ago
For now but this is in the pipeline too. https://github.com/dart-lang/language/blob/main/working/333%20-%20shared%20memory%20multithreading/proposal.md https://github.com/dart-lang/language/blob/main/working/333%...
- manmal 2y ago
  Great writeup, and I love that the authors looked at a lot of other languages. The solution section on how to prevent races is a bit light still - I‘m curious how they will solve this. I think there will need to be exceptions to a strict race-free model eto not take away from dart‘s current capabilities, and without forcing people into something like a borrow checker. Swift has `@unchecked Sendable` which lets you tell the compiler "I promise I'll take care myself to keep everything in there race-free". What I‘ve been missing in Swift are tools that let me add safety _within_ such @unchecked Sendables. There's the Swift Atomics lib: https://www.swift.org/blog/swift-atomics/ https://www.swift.org/blog/swift-atomics/, but its quite limited in its capabilities. So for now, I find myself reaching for tools provided by the community, like pointfree's LockIsolated: https://github.com/pointfreeco/swift-concurrency-extras/blob/main/Sources/ConcurrencyExtras/LockIsolated.swift https://github.com/pointfreeco/swift-concurrency-extras/blob....