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Whats wrong with their image? They're still able to raise billions no problem. Their day to day doesn't change. Altman just did a big deal with Apple. Musk's

by tmpz22 2y ago

Whats wrong with their image? They're still able to raise billions no problem. Their day to day doesn't change. Altman just did a big deal with Apple. Musk's board is still likely to cram through a $45B+ comp package for him.

bee_rider 2y ago
Altman has a basically fine image I think, in the sense that nobody outside of tech circles knows his name, and everyone in tech circles must at least admit that he’s good at getting investors. Musk has a reputation as being too demanding, which is one thing if you are doing something revolutionary, but nowadays the market has mostly caught up to his cars. It seems all that over-working his employees has done is produced poor QA. He’s also politically alienating to liberals, who would otherwise be inclined to buy his cars.
- celdon25 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - NickC25 2y ago
    What's wrong with a liberal? How are they alienating to normal people? How would you define "normal"? Also, would love to hear your definition of who is and who isn't "liberal". Remember kids, the left/right & liberal/conservative is a completely false dichotomy.
    - impossiblefork 2y ago
      Liberalism is free trade, property ownership, etc. Many people are excluded from that-- it's an ideology where both the rich and the poor are forbidden from sleeping under bridges. Of course it's alienating to ordinary people. This is why you got movements like social liberalism, to try to temper the madness and turn into something less socially useless, but everything moves back towards its origin, so here in Europe even once reasonably decent social liberal parties have now decayed into liberal parties, into the inherently alienating position that is liberalism's core.
      - bee_rider 2y ago
        That, of course, isn’t what people mean when they say liberal in the US context, here it just means social liberal or cultural liberal. In our defense, liberal economics are the ground state in the US, we don’t think to name them for the same reason a fish doesn’t think to name water.
        impossiblefork 2y ago
        Yes, I suppose which of the parties is the free-trade and property party to the highest degree has gone back and forth, and it's mixed up with all sorts of weirdness. I suppose now neither of them is a free party anymore at least, and I suppose both are landowner's parties.
RIMR 2y ago
This is a strange comment. Economic success and executive pay packages don't disqualify the claim that there is an image problem. If anything, Musk getting a $45B package after a year of failures and layoffs at Tesla is something that tarnishes Musk and Tesla's image. The fact that this cash package is almost exactly what he owes creditors for the loans he took out buying Twitter, it almost looks like he's begging Tesla for an undo button for his own terrible decisions. As for Apple making a deal with OpenAI, the fact that every product integrating ChatGPT is just being ruthless enshittified as a result, this is terrible optics for Apple when their biggest competitor, Microsoft, is currently playing target practice with its feet shipping poorly advised AI integrations (see: Recall). As for OpenAI's image, the only thing they have going for them is the technical impressiveness of ChatGPT - organizationally everyone I know in the tech space assumes that OpenAI is a dumpster fire of a company.
- rayiner 2y ago
  > If anything, Musk getting a $45B package after a year of failures and layoffs at Tesla is something that tarnishes Musk and Tesla's image I hate to defend executive comp, but Tesla’s market cap has gone up by $487 billion (almost 10x) since he was awarded that comp package in 2018. Half of all EVs sold in the US are Teslas. In 2023, the Model Y was the world’s bestselling car, outselling the Toyota Corolla. That’s completely insane. What more do you want?
  - threeseed 2y ago
    a) Full-time, engaged CEO free of conflicts of interest e.g. X.ai. b) Stop devaluing the Tesla brand with his controversial, inflammatory comments. c) Compensation package that is more reasonable compared with other companies.
  - troupo 2y ago
    > but Tesla’s market cap has gone up by $487 billion (almost 10x) since he was awarded that comp package in 2018 The speculation on Tesla's stock raised the "market cap". Any stock that Tesla doesn't own brings Tesla exactly 0 dollars, no matter how hight the illusionary market cap there is. How much of the stock does Tesla actually own? How much of the stock that Tesla owns can the company safely sell to offset the $45 billion of actual money that they had to cough up for Elon?
Havoc 2y ago
>Whats wrong with their image? They're still able to raise billions no problem. Their day to day doesn't change. Not sure I'd classify either of those as "image".
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
m463 2y ago
> Altman just did a big deal with Apple. did Altman do it? Musk on the other hand has built things. People can disparage him all they want, but I think every one of us is better off for tesla, neuralink, spacex and even the boring company and paypal. who cares if he opens his mouth on social media. I mean, he went to russia to launch a rocket, figured out they were a mess, came back and... several years later the world is launching rockets all the time. (It's june 11, and just starlink launched 4 rockets since the beginning of the month) The rocket stuff is like the rise of pc hardware, where things start happening faster and all of a sudden, commercial flights are putting people in space. I kind of think openai got off mission, and won't be as good for everyone, except maybe in the sense that other folks like meta have opened up models like llama.
- HWR_14 2y ago
  > I think every one of us is better off for tesla, neuralink, spacex and even the boring company and paypal. None of those make me better off in any way. Some (neuralink, the boring company) have never made anyone better off except maybe in some pilot program.
  - m463 2y ago
    They have second order effects, usually wrt competition. Tesla might not be your favorite car, but it has created robust competition in EVs, and made the incumbent car manufacturers have to compete. Someday if you need internet in your cabin or RV, starlink made it easier even if you don't use them.
    - HWR_14 2y ago
      I don't believe in either of your listed secondary effects. How does starlink existing make it more likely for other companies to build expensive infrastructure while having to price compete with it?
      - m463 2y ago
        hughes isn't the only game in town now. If you've ever looked at satellite internet, hughes was not affordable, and very slow. Now starlink has shaken things up, and it is even fast enough to do real work.

by tmpz22 2y ago

bee_rider 2y ago

Altman has a basically fine image I think, in the sense that nobody outside of tech circles knows his name, and everyone in tech circles must at least admit that he’s good at getting investors. Musk has a reputation as being too demanding, which is one thing if you are doing something revolutionary, but nowadays the market has mostly caught up to his cars. It seems all that over-working his employees has done is produced poor QA. He’s also politically alienating to liberals, who would otherwise be inclined to buy his cars.

celdon25 2y ago
[flagged]
- NickC25 2y ago
  What's wrong with a liberal? How are they alienating to normal people? How would you define "normal"? Also, would love to hear your definition of who is and who isn't "liberal". Remember kids, the left/right & liberal/conservative is a completely false dichotomy.
  - impossiblefork 2y ago
    Liberalism is free trade, property ownership, etc. Many people are excluded from that-- it's an ideology where both the rich and the poor are forbidden from sleeping under bridges. Of course it's alienating to ordinary people. This is why you got movements like social liberalism, to try to temper the madness and turn into something less socially useless, but everything moves back towards its origin, so here in Europe even once reasonably decent social liberal parties have now decayed into liberal parties, into the inherently alienating position that is liberalism's core.
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      That, of course, isn’t what people mean when they say liberal in the US context, here it just means social liberal or cultural liberal. In our defense, liberal economics are the ground state in the US, we don’t think to name them for the same reason a fish doesn’t think to name water.
      - impossiblefork 2y ago
        Yes, I suppose which of the parties is the free-trade and property party to the highest degree has gone back and forth, and it's mixed up with all sorts of weirdness. I suppose now neither of them is a free party anymore at least, and I suppose both are landowner's parties.

RIMR 2y ago

This is a strange comment. Economic success and executive pay packages don't disqualify the claim that there is an image problem. If anything, Musk getting a $45B package after a year of failures and layoffs at Tesla is something that tarnishes Musk and Tesla's image. The fact that this cash package is almost exactly what he owes creditors for the loans he took out buying Twitter, it almost looks like he's begging Tesla for an undo button for his own terrible decisions. As for Apple making a deal with OpenAI, the fact that every product integrating ChatGPT is just being ruthless enshittified as a result, this is terrible optics for Apple when their biggest competitor, Microsoft, is currently playing target practice with its feet shipping poorly advised AI integrations (see: Recall). As for OpenAI's image, the only thing they have going for them is the technical impressiveness of ChatGPT - organizationally everyone I know in the tech space assumes that OpenAI is a dumpster fire of a company.

rayiner 2y ago
> If anything, Musk getting a $45B package after a year of failures and layoffs at Tesla is something that tarnishes Musk and Tesla's image I hate to defend executive comp, but Tesla’s market cap has gone up by $487 billion (almost 10x) since he was awarded that comp package in 2018. Half of all EVs sold in the US are Teslas. In 2023, the Model Y was the world’s bestselling car, outselling the Toyota Corolla. That’s completely insane. What more do you want?
- threeseed 2y ago
  a) Full-time, engaged CEO free of conflicts of interest e.g. X.ai. b) Stop devaluing the Tesla brand with his controversial, inflammatory comments. c) Compensation package that is more reasonable compared with other companies.
- troupo 2y ago
  > but Tesla’s market cap has gone up by $487 billion (almost 10x) since he was awarded that comp package in 2018 The speculation on Tesla's stock raised the "market cap". Any stock that Tesla doesn't own brings Tesla exactly 0 dollars, no matter how hight the illusionary market cap there is. How much of the stock does Tesla actually own? How much of the stock that Tesla owns can the company safely sell to offset the $45 billion of actual money that they had to cough up for Elon?

Havoc 2y ago

>Whats wrong with their image? They're still able to raise billions no problem. Their day to day doesn't change. Not sure I'd classify either of those as "image".

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

m463 2y ago

> Altman just did a big deal with Apple. did Altman do it? Musk on the other hand has built things. People can disparage him all they want, but I think every one of us is better off for tesla, neuralink, spacex and even the boring company and paypal. who cares if he opens his mouth on social media. I mean, he went to russia to launch a rocket, figured out they were a mess, came back and... several years later the world is launching rockets all the time. (It's june 11, and just starlink launched 4 rockets since the beginning of the month) The rocket stuff is like the rise of pc hardware, where things start happening faster and all of a sudden, commercial flights are putting people in space. I kind of think openai got off mission, and won't be as good for everyone, except maybe in the sense that other folks like meta have opened up models like llama.

HWR_14 2y ago
> I think every one of us is better off for tesla, neuralink, spacex and even the boring company and paypal. None of those make me better off in any way. Some (neuralink, the boring company) have never made anyone better off except maybe in some pilot program.
- m463 2y ago
  They have second order effects, usually wrt competition. Tesla might not be your favorite car, but it has created robust competition in EVs, and made the incumbent car manufacturers have to compete. Someday if you need internet in your cabin or RV, starlink made it easier even if you don't use them.
  - HWR_14 2y ago
    I don't believe in either of your listed secondary effects. How does starlink existing make it more likely for other companies to build expensive infrastructure while having to price compete with it?
    - m463 2y ago
      hughes isn't the only game in town now. If you've ever looked at satellite internet, hughes was not affordable, and very slow. Now starlink has shaken things up, and it is even fast enough to do real work.