3 ms·

Which indications are those? Honest question. I don't know much about this. Since plastic is one of the most biologically neutral/non-interacting materials I've

by afh1 2y ago

Which indications are those? Honest question. I don't know much about this. Since plastic is one of the most biologically neutral/non-interacting materials I've never been too concerned, though I suppose in certain forms and over certain amounts it could be harmful?

dyauspitr 2y ago
Phthalates are estrogen mimics.
kjkjadksj 2y ago
Well, they figured as such about bpa and here we are. They figured as such for a lot of things in the past that turned out to be not what they seemed after sufficient data were collected.
kragen 2y ago
phthalates, like flax seeds and soybeans, are probably endocrine disruptors in humans. they're oils, not solid plastics; you add them to pvc to transform it from a rigid, brittle substance like those white sewer pipes into a flexible, resilient substance like shower curtains, fake leather upholstery from the 01970s, or nasogastric tubes. they evaporate from the plastic over time, so you inhale them and the plastic gets brittle. they also diffuse out of the plastic into whatever it's in contact with, especially oily things in general any statement that refers to 'plastic' as a single material is wrong. the only thing the diverse materials called 'plastic' have in common is that you can mold them and that at least one of their major ingredients is a synthetic organic material, not even necessarily the majority i think probably the concern over harm from human phthalate exposure will turn out to be baseless, but it's not implausible
- lopis 2y ago
  Source on flax seeds and soybeans being endocrine disruptors?
  - kragen 2y ago
    check the sources cited in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogen#Food_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogen#Food_sources
    - red_trumpet 2y ago
      That article also contains the phrase > As of 2020, there is insufficient clinical evidence to determine that phytoestrogens have effects in humans.
      - kragen 2y ago
        yes, and that's also true of phthalates at normal exposure levels, which is why hospitals still use vinyl tubing; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor#Phthalates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor#Phthalates for more detail also, though i didn't realize this, natural sources of phthalates include coconuts, poppy seeds, grapes, and kidney beans. see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310026/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310026/ and https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Phthalic-acid#section=Taxonomy https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Phthalic-acid#sect...
        gamblor956 2y ago
        Humans have been consuming flax and soy-based products for thousands of years. At this point, the burden of proof is on those claiming that they have hidden harmful effects that have someone escaped thousands of years of human consumption.
        kragen 2y ago
        yes, although that burden of proof may indeed eventually be met for either phthalates in general or some specific phthalate; as with soybeans, there's strongly suggestive evidence that doesn't yet rise to the level of proof
riskable 2y ago
Someone already commented about pthalates themselves but I'd also like to point out that a big problem with microplastics isn't the microplastics themselves but the fact that they absorb other chemicals which can then be released/absorbed when they get inside your body or even just on your skin: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/toxic-microplastics-absorbed-by-the-skin#Chemicals-in-microplastics-penetrate-the-skin-barrier https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/toxic-microplastic... More: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220216112233.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220216112233.h... Microplastics are like little buckets for all sorts of toxic compounds and pharmaceuticals (that you probably don't have a prescription for like cancer treatment drugs).

by afh1 2y ago

dyauspitr 2y ago

Phthalates are estrogen mimics.

kjkjadksj 2y ago

Well, they figured as such about bpa and here we are. They figured as such for a lot of things in the past that turned out to be not what they seemed after sufficient data were collected.

kragen 2y ago

phthalates, like flax seeds and soybeans, are probably endocrine disruptors in humans. they're oils, not solid plastics; you add them to pvc to transform it from a rigid, brittle substance like those white sewer pipes into a flexible, resilient substance like shower curtains, fake leather upholstery from the 01970s, or nasogastric tubes. they evaporate from the plastic over time, so you inhale them and the plastic gets brittle. they also diffuse out of the plastic into whatever it's in contact with, especially oily things in general any statement that refers to 'plastic' as a single material is wrong. the only thing the diverse materials called 'plastic' have in common is that you can mold them and that at least one of their major ingredients is a synthetic organic material, not even necessarily the majority i think probably the concern over harm from human phthalate exposure will turn out to be baseless, but it's not implausible

lopis 2y ago
Source on flax seeds and soybeans being endocrine disruptors?
- kragen 2y ago
  check the sources cited in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogen#Food_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogen#Food_sources
  - red_trumpet 2y ago
    That article also contains the phrase > As of 2020, there is insufficient clinical evidence to determine that phytoestrogens have effects in humans.
    - kragen 2y ago
      yes, and that's also true of phthalates at normal exposure levels, which is why hospitals still use vinyl tubing; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor#Phthalates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor#Phthalates for more detail also, though i didn't realize this, natural sources of phthalates include coconuts, poppy seeds, grapes, and kidney beans. see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310026/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310026/ and https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Phthalic-acid#section=Taxonomy https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Phthalic-acid#sect...
      - gamblor956 2y ago
        Humans have been consuming flax and soy-based products for thousands of years. At this point, the burden of proof is on those claiming that they have hidden harmful effects that have someone escaped thousands of years of human consumption.
        kragen 2y ago
        yes, although that burden of proof may indeed eventually be met for either phthalates in general or some specific phthalate; as with soybeans, there's strongly suggestive evidence that doesn't yet rise to the level of proof

riskable 2y ago

Someone already commented about pthalates themselves but I'd also like to point out that a big problem with microplastics isn't the microplastics themselves but the fact that they absorb other chemicals which can then be released/absorbed when they get inside your body or even just on your skin: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/toxic-microplastics-absorbed-by-the-skin#Chemicals-in-microplastics-penetrate-the-skin-barrier https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/toxic-microplastic... More: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220216112233.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/02/220216112233.h... Microplastics are like little buckets for all sorts of toxic compounds and pharmaceuticals (that you probably don't have a prescription for like cancer treatment drugs).