5 ms·

Because they don't make much money from Windows anymore. They sell licenses to OEM's for dirt cheap, no longer charge end-users for OS upgrades, and people don'

Because they don't make much money from Windows anymore. They sell licenses to OEM's for dirt cheap, no longer charge end-users for OS upgrades, and people don't buy new computers as often as they did 15 years ago. Google makes their money by sucking up all your data and using it to power AdSense. Apple makes money by selling you the whole damn computer with a healthy margin. I felt this enshittification of Windows was inevitable the moment they announced Windows 10 was a free upgrade for everyone.

RogerL 2y ago
Net profit margin has been going up since 2015 or so, release year of Windows 10. Gross profit has also been increasing YoY over the same time period. I know it isn't quite that simple - 2/3 of the business is cloud and productivity (Office, etc), and cloud is relatively new, adding a lot of growth, but there is nothing that forces them to eeek out nickels from 13yo via minesweeper ads.
- kbolino 2y ago
  If every department is expected to function as profitably as the most-profitable department, then this can happen. Even if Windows makes money, if it doesn't make as much as Azure (or whatever else is doing really well at any given moment), then it stands out. Looking at "Home" Windows vs. "Pro" Windows probably makes this even more stark: I'd bet home/consumer editions of Windows are bleeding money. Heck, they've probably been losing money on home Windows for a decade or more (i.e. even back to when Microsoft still charged for updates), but the loss was offset by sales of Office (every non-techie's first question after giving them a clean Windows install: "where's Office?"). But now installed Office is getting replaced by cloud solutions, most of which aren't Microsoft.
hnlmorg 2y ago
They make an absolute killing from Windows in the enterprise space though. Between Windows Server on-prem licenses, Azure AD, and Microsoft Office, it’s a very lucrative market. At this point, Windows Home largely just exists to lock people into the familiarity of Windows so it remains the de facto standard of businesses too
- surfingdino 2y ago
  They make half a killing, actually. Enterprises skip at least one version. They are just too large to switch all computers over to the next version of Windows so they always skip one.
  - kbolino 2y ago
    Do they all skip the same versions, though?
    - surfingdino 2y ago
      They do controlled deployments of the new version and either stick to it, or wait for the next one.
      - kbolino 2y ago
        What I mean is, do the various enterprises cluster around the same versions? If roughly half of them skip odd versions and the other half skip even versions, and they do this fairly consistently, it doesn't affect revenue patterns.
  - tracker1 2y ago
    They're paying annual licenses if they skip versions or not...
    - surfingdino 2y ago
      They even pay for extended support beyond EoL.
  - hnlmorg 2y ago
    I’m not talking about desktop Windows, I’m talking about all the services that are bought because people are tied into windows. From domain management tooling through to productivity suites. You could liken it to the pay-to-win model in that Windows is dirt cheap if you’re not doing anything serious in it. But the moment you want something more business-ready, your costs are going to skyrocket.

RogerL 2y ago

Net profit margin has been going up since 2015 or so, release year of Windows 10. Gross profit has also been increasing YoY over the same time period. I know it isn't quite that simple - 2/3 of the business is cloud and productivity (Office, etc), and cloud is relatively new, adding a lot of growth, but there is nothing that forces them to eeek out nickels from 13yo via minesweeper ads.

kbolino 2y ago
If every department is expected to function as profitably as the most-profitable department, then this can happen. Even if Windows makes money, if it doesn't make as much as Azure (or whatever else is doing really well at any given moment), then it stands out. Looking at "Home" Windows vs. "Pro" Windows probably makes this even more stark: I'd bet home/consumer editions of Windows are bleeding money. Heck, they've probably been losing money on home Windows for a decade or more (i.e. even back to when Microsoft still charged for updates), but the loss was offset by sales of Office (every non-techie's first question after giving them a clean Windows install: "where's Office?"). But now installed Office is getting replaced by cloud solutions, most of which aren't Microsoft.

hnlmorg 2y ago

They make an absolute killing from Windows in the enterprise space though. Between Windows Server on-prem licenses, Azure AD, and Microsoft Office, it’s a very lucrative market. At this point, Windows Home largely just exists to lock people into the familiarity of Windows so it remains the de facto standard of businesses too

surfingdino 2y ago
They make half a killing, actually. Enterprises skip at least one version. They are just too large to switch all computers over to the next version of Windows so they always skip one.
- kbolino 2y ago
  Do they all skip the same versions, though?
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    They do controlled deployments of the new version and either stick to it, or wait for the next one.
    - kbolino 2y ago
      What I mean is, do the various enterprises cluster around the same versions? If roughly half of them skip odd versions and the other half skip even versions, and they do this fairly consistently, it doesn't affect revenue patterns.
- tracker1 2y ago
  They're paying annual licenses if they skip versions or not...
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    They even pay for extended support beyond EoL.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  I’m not talking about desktop Windows, I’m talking about all the services that are bought because people are tied into windows. From domain management tooling through to productivity suites. You could liken it to the pay-to-win model in that Windows is dirt cheap if you’re not doing anything serious in it. But the moment you want something more business-ready, your costs are going to skyrocket.