4 ms·

You are not looking at it from the right perspective. Microsoft the company(and shareholders) gives absolutely no shit about it but there is someone somewhere

You are not looking at it from the right perspective. Microsoft the company(and shareholders) gives absolutely no shit about it but there is someone somewhere in the org who has that app and its earnings in their yearly priorities and that person and perhaps the people who work for them do in fact care.

smaudet 2y ago
Eh? This app can be done in an afternoon. "that app and its earnings in their yearly priorities" If you mean, monetizing the day they spent on it, sure, but that's still just ridiculous.
- fleshdaddy 2y ago
  I think that’s a little naive to how these massive dinosaurs operate. Microsoft doesn’t build anything in an afternoon, not even Minesweeper. There are probably multiple careers at least partially dependent on the metrics from this. Everything becomes an ongoing process at MS scale, for better or worse.
  - workfromspace 2y ago
    Maybe we can give Elon Musk a chance to be Microsoft's CEO.
    - tracker1 2y ago
      As much as I do appreciate Elon's takes on a lot of things and some of his approaches. I don't think he would work out well for a corporation the size of Microsoft. Microsoft is almost more of a conglomerate than a singular software (and hardware) company. It would take a solid leader who also appoints appropriate corporate heads in each division. The marching orders for Windows seems to be "monetize home users." They don't "sell" the OS anymore on practical terms for home use... it's more about trying to sell adjacent services, shove Edge with built in consumerware plugins and nickel and diming every possible corner to each out a dollar or two a year per user.
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    Then Microsoft is operating incompetently and it's not my obligation as a player of Minesweeper to endure their shit version of it because their organization is incapable of taking on a simple problem simply. If you can't as a company belt out a simple game in a short amount of time without roping in 4 project managers a senior project manager 2 senior developers 12 code monkeys and 4 graphic designers and all the overhead to manage them, your company sucks and should be buried.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    > Microsoft doesn’t build anything in an afternoon, not even Minesweeper. Heck, once you factor in alpha, beta, and user testing, I don't think anyone could build a releasable Minesweeper in an afternoon unless it's just a junk implementation.
    - ndriscoll 2y ago
      Surely e.g. the version that was good enough to ship to hundreds of millions in Windows XP is not junk, and it seems like something on that level should be totally doable in an afternoon by someone familiar with GUI application programming? The actual game logic should take like 10 minutes. Like what would be the scope of an "alpha" that isn't a working game? Opening an empty window? Writing a console version of the logic?
      - JohnFen 2y ago
        > The actual game logic should take like 10 minutes. True, but there's a lot more to it than the game logic. Regardless, it's not a complex application by any standard -- but I don't think I know any dev who could implement it well and in its finished form in an afternoon. > Like what would be the scope of an "alpha" that isn't a working game? I don't understand this question. Any alpha is a working program. If the devs don't think it's done, then it's not yet an alpha.
- surfingdino 2y ago
  You can write it in an afternoon, but it may take years to release it under Microsoft's name. Large organisations are designed for preservation of shareholder value and will take a long time to approve new software or a new feature.
fleshdaddy 2y ago
Yeah exactly. That’s how we end up with ads in our taskbar.
gizmo 2y ago
Brand damage is very real for large businesses. Developers who abandon Windows for Mac or Linux don't come back when their specific grievance gets addressed by Microsoft because the fundamental trust is broken. Apple is making similar mistakes with their aggressive App Store take rate, by allowing so many scam apps on the App Store, and with their unfair policy enforcement. Apple sentiment among developers has been declining steadily as a result. For many the tipping point hasn't been reached yet even though they are fed up. The problem with brand destruction is that it takes a long time to show up as in the revenue chart. But by the time it does a ton of damage has been done.
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  > the fundamental trust is broken. This seems to be the core of the discussion. Is there a fundamental trust to have towards any of these corporation, and where do you go when they all breached the amount of trust you had in them ? To give a parallel, it's like boycotting every airline that wronged you. Very quickly you have to revise your criteria. Linux would be the exception as there's a path where you don't need to trust any organization, but I don't think it's practical for an average computer user.
  - tracker1 2y ago
    Define the average computer user... if they mostly use web apps, then Linux is completely viable, and I have several friends and family converted for their own online safety for years now.
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      I meant going to a non commercially owned distro. While Ubuntu for instance is a good experience, you still need to trust Canonical. Granted it's a lot easier when it's OSS at its core and there's a whole community watching.
      - fsflover 2y ago
        Debian is better than Ubuntu in every way. My relatives use it just fine.

smaudet 2y ago

Eh? This app can be done in an afternoon. "that app and its earnings in their yearly priorities" If you mean, monetizing the day they spent on it, sure, but that's still just ridiculous.

fleshdaddy 2y ago
I think that’s a little naive to how these massive dinosaurs operate. Microsoft doesn’t build anything in an afternoon, not even Minesweeper. There are probably multiple careers at least partially dependent on the metrics from this. Everything becomes an ongoing process at MS scale, for better or worse.
- workfromspace 2y ago
  Maybe we can give Elon Musk a chance to be Microsoft's CEO.
  - tracker1 2y ago
    As much as I do appreciate Elon's takes on a lot of things and some of his approaches. I don't think he would work out well for a corporation the size of Microsoft. Microsoft is almost more of a conglomerate than a singular software (and hardware) company. It would take a solid leader who also appoints appropriate corporate heads in each division. The marching orders for Windows seems to be "monetize home users." They don't "sell" the OS anymore on practical terms for home use... it's more about trying to sell adjacent services, shove Edge with built in consumerware plugins and nickel and diming every possible corner to each out a dollar or two a year per user.
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  Then Microsoft is operating incompetently and it's not my obligation as a player of Minesweeper to endure their shit version of it because their organization is incapable of taking on a simple problem simply. If you can't as a company belt out a simple game in a short amount of time without roping in 4 project managers a senior project manager 2 senior developers 12 code monkeys and 4 graphic designers and all the overhead to manage them, your company sucks and should be buried.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  > Microsoft doesn’t build anything in an afternoon, not even Minesweeper. Heck, once you factor in alpha, beta, and user testing, I don't think anyone could build a releasable Minesweeper in an afternoon unless it's just a junk implementation.
  - ndriscoll 2y ago
    Surely e.g. the version that was good enough to ship to hundreds of millions in Windows XP is not junk, and it seems like something on that level should be totally doable in an afternoon by someone familiar with GUI application programming? The actual game logic should take like 10 minutes. Like what would be the scope of an "alpha" that isn't a working game? Opening an empty window? Writing a console version of the logic?
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      > The actual game logic should take like 10 minutes. True, but there's a lot more to it than the game logic. Regardless, it's not a complex application by any standard -- but I don't think I know any dev who could implement it well and in its finished form in an afternoon. > Like what would be the scope of an "alpha" that isn't a working game? I don't understand this question. Any alpha is a working program. If the devs don't think it's done, then it's not yet an alpha.
surfingdino 2y ago
You can write it in an afternoon, but it may take years to release it under Microsoft's name. Large organisations are designed for preservation of shareholder value and will take a long time to approve new software or a new feature.

fleshdaddy 2y ago

Yeah exactly. That’s how we end up with ads in our taskbar.

gizmo 2y ago

Brand damage is very real for large businesses. Developers who abandon Windows for Mac or Linux don't come back when their specific grievance gets addressed by Microsoft because the fundamental trust is broken. Apple is making similar mistakes with their aggressive App Store take rate, by allowing so many scam apps on the App Store, and with their unfair policy enforcement. Apple sentiment among developers has been declining steadily as a result. For many the tipping point hasn't been reached yet even though they are fed up. The problem with brand destruction is that it takes a long time to show up as in the revenue chart. But by the time it does a ton of damage has been done.

makeitdouble 2y ago
> the fundamental trust is broken. This seems to be the core of the discussion. Is there a fundamental trust to have towards any of these corporation, and where do you go when they all breached the amount of trust you had in them ? To give a parallel, it's like boycotting every airline that wronged you. Very quickly you have to revise your criteria. Linux would be the exception as there's a path where you don't need to trust any organization, but I don't think it's practical for an average computer user.
- tracker1 2y ago
  Define the average computer user... if they mostly use web apps, then Linux is completely viable, and I have several friends and family converted for their own online safety for years now.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    I meant going to a non commercially owned distro. While Ubuntu for instance is a good experience, you still need to trust Canonical. Granted it's a lot easier when it's OSS at its core and there's a whole community watching.
    - fsflover 2y ago
      Debian is better than Ubuntu in every way. My relatives use it just fine.