3 ms·

> “We’re trying to engage in a dialog with Apple to implement these changes,” she said Monday. “They don’t feel like these are necessary actions.” I'm trying m

> “We’re trying to engage in a dialog with Apple to implement these changes,” she said Monday. “They don’t feel like these are necessary actions.” I'm trying my hardest to not assume this person is an industry plant, but... didn't we all arrive at the consensus that local iCloud scanning is a dangerous political Rubicon to cross? It doesn't make sense why someone would advocate for this feature without also addressing the security and privacy concerns that (supposedly) made Apple drop it entirely. Their demands are just bringing us back to square-one and repeating the same tautology that failed to prove the feature's worth in the first place.

rad_gruchalski 2y ago
> didn't we all arrive at the consensus that local iCloud scanning is a dangerous political Rubicon to cross? We did but these people aren't interested in the privacy aspect, just scanning. Our privacy is their enemy. "Not our problem". > It doesn't make sense why someone would advocate for this It makes sense when you consider that their motivations may be different from the publicly projected image.
- Zak 2y ago
  It may still make sense if they're honest about their goals. It's not rare to find people advocating for policies in other fields that have high costs to society the advocates simply don't value as highly as the issue they're advocating. I imagine some people, including these advocates would find my opposing position that no crime can justify mass surveillance nonsensical.
- whstl 2y ago
  > We did but these people aren't interested in the privacy aspect, just scanning And some "activists", like Ashton Kutcher, are interested in making money out of this, via his startup, Thorn. EDIT: And, to absolutely nobody's surprise, the CEO of this group is a former VP of Ashton Kutcher's Thorn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-gardner-aba90013/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-gardner-aba90013/
  - itishappy 2y ago
    > Sarah previously spent 10 years at Thorn > Prior to the Heat Initiative, [Lily] worked alongside Sarah as her Chief of Staff at Thorn. > Prior to the Heat Initiative, Brooke spent the last 9 years as a strategy, programs, and operations executive at Thorn... Their community manager is the only one with no stated connection to Thorn. https://protectchildrennotabuse.org/about-us https://protectchildrennotabuse.org/about-us
beardyw 2y ago
> It doesn't make sense why someone would advocate for this feature without also addressing the security and privacy concerns that (supposedly) made Apple drop it entirely. It doesn't make sense to you. Very, very many people don't care about security. Honestly outside of tech it astounds me how unconcerned most people are. But they are concerned about sharing of stuff you or I would also recoil from. They care about that, not security.
- lovethevoid 2y ago
  They don’t care about “security”, they do care about their credit cards being used by thieves due to a data breach. Which is security and privacy, but they don’t care about either as labels.
  - beardyw 2y ago
    There is a real disconnect between "I use the same password everywhere" and "my account was hacked".
- SirMaster 2y ago
  If they grew up their whole life not caring about security, and they never perceived any issue in their life due to a security issue, then is it so hard to believe or understand why they don't care about security? (I am just agreeing with your comment)
hooverd 2y ago
Of course the people demanding this don't care or know about the security and privacy concerns, they're NPIC fat cats moving from one bloated org to the next. Zero experience or expertise other than setting non-profit donations on fire.
wonderwonder 2y ago
If you look at most protests lately there is no nuance. They embrace a single view point absolutely to the point of not even considering any others or admitting that perhaps the issue is complex. They are the target for the political ads and talking points that seize on a single point and use it like a cudgel against the opposition. The worst part is so many of those at protests have only a limited understanding of the issue they are protesting against. Perhaps that's how its always been but social media has just made it more glaringly frustrating.
- zer00eyz 2y ago
  > If you look at most protests lately there is no nuance. They embrace a single view point absolutely to the point of not even considering any others or admitting that perhaps the issue is complex. You're being far too nice. Monocultures. Facile arguments. Stupid people. Hey, if you want the government accessing your phone, then you should pack up and go to china.
  - wonderwonder 2y ago
    I think its more than that. Some of the our supposedly smartest youth at our Ivy leagues are acting in this manner. I think its the same reason people join cults. Lack of friends, the need to belong, an general emptiness inside. Political movements prey on these people. Overall though, I do think you are right, once they join these groups they want to keep their friends and sense of belonging so they are willing to discard any critical thinking or common sense. I think its sad overall.
    - zer00eyz 2y ago
      > cults So many people cut off their family members based on political identity in the last 8 years. You're free to do that. But cutting off people who aren't "in" your group is one of the signs of a cult. Scientology is even OVERT about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disconnection_(Scientology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disconnection_(Scientology)
colonelmachine 2y ago
> I'm trying my hardest to not assume this person is an industry plant 'The Heat Initiative' has been linked to political dark money: https://theintercept.com/2023/10/01/apple-encryption-iphone-heat-initiative/ https://theintercept.com/2023/10/01/apple-encryption-iphone-...
- whstl 2y ago
  The CEO of Heat Initiative is a former VP of Thorn, a startup founded by Ashton Kutcher that sells scanning technology, and wants to land Apple and other big techs as customers. https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-gardner-aba90013/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-gardner-aba90013/
itishappy 2y ago
> I'm trying my hardest to not assume this person is an industry plant... This group is an industry plant. Check out the prior work experience of the majority of Heat Initiative's leadership team: https://protectchildrennotabuse.org/about-us/ https://protectchildrennotabuse.org/about-us/

rad_gruchalski 2y ago

> didn't we all arrive at the consensus that local iCloud scanning is a dangerous political Rubicon to cross? We did but these people aren't interested in the privacy aspect, just scanning. Our privacy is their enemy. "Not our problem". > It doesn't make sense why someone would advocate for this It makes sense when you consider that their motivations may be different from the publicly projected image.

Zak 2y ago
It may still make sense if they're honest about their goals. It's not rare to find people advocating for policies in other fields that have high costs to society the advocates simply don't value as highly as the issue they're advocating. I imagine some people, including these advocates would find my opposing position that no crime can justify mass surveillance nonsensical.
whstl 2y ago
> We did but these people aren't interested in the privacy aspect, just scanning And some "activists", like Ashton Kutcher, are interested in making money out of this, via his startup, Thorn. EDIT: And, to absolutely nobody's surprise, the CEO of this group is a former VP of Ashton Kutcher's Thorn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-gardner-aba90013/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-gardner-aba90013/
- itishappy 2y ago
  > Sarah previously spent 10 years at Thorn > Prior to the Heat Initiative, [Lily] worked alongside Sarah as her Chief of Staff at Thorn. > Prior to the Heat Initiative, Brooke spent the last 9 years as a strategy, programs, and operations executive at Thorn... Their community manager is the only one with no stated connection to Thorn. https://protectchildrennotabuse.org/about-us https://protectchildrennotabuse.org/about-us

beardyw 2y ago

> It doesn't make sense why someone would advocate for this feature without also addressing the security and privacy concerns that (supposedly) made Apple drop it entirely. It doesn't make sense to you. Very, very many people don't care about security. Honestly outside of tech it astounds me how unconcerned most people are. But they are concerned about sharing of stuff you or I would also recoil from. They care about that, not security.

lovethevoid 2y ago
They don’t care about “security”, they do care about their credit cards being used by thieves due to a data breach. Which is security and privacy, but they don’t care about either as labels.
- beardyw 2y ago
  There is a real disconnect between "I use the same password everywhere" and "my account was hacked".
SirMaster 2y ago
If they grew up their whole life not caring about security, and they never perceived any issue in their life due to a security issue, then is it so hard to believe or understand why they don't care about security? (I am just agreeing with your comment)

hooverd 2y ago

Of course the people demanding this don't care or know about the security and privacy concerns, they're NPIC fat cats moving from one bloated org to the next. Zero experience or expertise other than setting non-profit donations on fire.

wonderwonder 2y ago

If you look at most protests lately there is no nuance. They embrace a single view point absolutely to the point of not even considering any others or admitting that perhaps the issue is complex. They are the target for the political ads and talking points that seize on a single point and use it like a cudgel against the opposition. The worst part is so many of those at protests have only a limited understanding of the issue they are protesting against. Perhaps that's how its always been but social media has just made it more glaringly frustrating.

zer00eyz 2y ago
> If you look at most protests lately there is no nuance. They embrace a single view point absolutely to the point of not even considering any others or admitting that perhaps the issue is complex. You're being far too nice. Monocultures. Facile arguments. Stupid people. Hey, if you want the government accessing your phone, then you should pack up and go to china.
- wonderwonder 2y ago
  I think its more than that. Some of the our supposedly smartest youth at our Ivy leagues are acting in this manner. I think its the same reason people join cults. Lack of friends, the need to belong, an general emptiness inside. Political movements prey on these people. Overall though, I do think you are right, once they join these groups they want to keep their friends and sense of belonging so they are willing to discard any critical thinking or common sense. I think its sad overall.
  - zer00eyz 2y ago
    > cults So many people cut off their family members based on political identity in the last 8 years. You're free to do that. But cutting off people who aren't "in" your group is one of the signs of a cult. Scientology is even OVERT about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disconnection_(Scientology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disconnection_(Scientology)

colonelmachine 2y ago

> I'm trying my hardest to not assume this person is an industry plant 'The Heat Initiative' has been linked to political dark money: https://theintercept.com/2023/10/01/apple-encryption-iphone-heat-initiative/ https://theintercept.com/2023/10/01/apple-encryption-iphone-...

whstl 2y ago
The CEO of Heat Initiative is a former VP of Thorn, a startup founded by Ashton Kutcher that sells scanning technology, and wants to land Apple and other big techs as customers. https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-gardner-aba90013/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-gardner-aba90013/

itishappy 2y ago

> I'm trying my hardest to not assume this person is an industry plant... This group is an industry plant. Check out the prior work experience of the majority of Heat Initiative's leadership team: https://protectchildrennotabuse.org/about-us/ https://protectchildrennotabuse.org/about-us/