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IMO this isn't the direction we're going. I'd bet that in 20 years, there will be some form of grid-scale specific battery that is 2-3x cheaper than lithium iro

IMO this isn't the direction we're going. I'd bet that in 20 years, there will be some form of grid-scale specific battery that is 2-3x cheaper than lithium iron (per joule), but with much worse energy density. Many of the batteries of this type are unsuitable for home installation (because they get more efficient with scale). Some of the potential options for this are things like iron sulfur batteries which require pretty high temps, or some designs for batteries that basically involve physical pumps to pump liquid anodes and cathodes around.

szvsw 2y ago
> some designs for batteries that basically involve physical pumps to pump liquid anodes and cathodes around Yeah in addition to flow batteries there are also grid scale thermal batteries, though these are targeted more towards long duration energy storage: run electricity through a large carbon block in a shipping container form factor to heat it up, then use infrared photovoltaics to convert back to electricity when desired.
- Teever 2y ago
  I'd be interested in learning more about this carbon block battery that you're describing. I'm also curious how it compares in cost effectiveness to this battery that's based on sand. https://tambaynews.blogspot.com/2022/07/worlds-first-commercial-sand-battery.html https://tambaynews.blogspot.com/2022/07/worlds-first-commerc...
  - szvsw 2y ago
    Antora is one example: https://antoraenergy.com/ https://antoraenergy.com/ In addition to a few hundred mil in funding, they have support from NREL/DoE, eg https://www.nrel.gov/news/features/2024/how-nrel-helps-startups-from-the-beginning.html https://www.nrel.gov/news/features/2024/how-nrel-helps-start... I also was at a conference recently that had some cool feasibility studies done by people at NREL about using TPV for LDTES with Antora product specs used for boundary conditions, but I don’t think that’s published yet. I’ve also seen FourthPower mentioned a few times but I don’t know much about them or how feasible their tech actually is. https://gofourth.com/our-technology/ https://gofourth.com/our-technology/ Energy storage is not my area of expertise (but very much adjacent to it).

szvsw 2y ago

> some designs for batteries that basically involve physical pumps to pump liquid anodes and cathodes around Yeah in addition to flow batteries there are also grid scale thermal batteries, though these are targeted more towards long duration energy storage: run electricity through a large carbon block in a shipping container form factor to heat it up, then use infrared photovoltaics to convert back to electricity when desired.

Teever 2y ago
I'd be interested in learning more about this carbon block battery that you're describing. I'm also curious how it compares in cost effectiveness to this battery that's based on sand. https://tambaynews.blogspot.com/2022/07/worlds-first-commercial-sand-battery.html https://tambaynews.blogspot.com/2022/07/worlds-first-commerc...
- szvsw 2y ago
  Antora is one example: https://antoraenergy.com/ https://antoraenergy.com/ In addition to a few hundred mil in funding, they have support from NREL/DoE, eg https://www.nrel.gov/news/features/2024/how-nrel-helps-startups-from-the-beginning.html https://www.nrel.gov/news/features/2024/how-nrel-helps-start... I also was at a conference recently that had some cool feasibility studies done by people at NREL about using TPV for LDTES with Antora product specs used for boundary conditions, but I don’t think that’s published yet. I’ve also seen FourthPower mentioned a few times but I don’t know much about them or how feasible their tech actually is. https://gofourth.com/our-technology/ https://gofourth.com/our-technology/ Energy storage is not my area of expertise (but very much adjacent to it).