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It seems like this is all compatible with the root cause being parental/family values of achievement rather than the school per se. As a parent, I’m always sup

It seems like this is all compatible with the root cause being parental/family values of achievement rather than the school per se. As a parent, I’m always super conscious that one is tempted to praise the achievement, but this is good summary of why that is a bad idea. Instead we try hard to praise the effort, especially when our kids fail. Not always easy!

Willingham 2y ago
I second this, ultimately a large part of who we all are is who we are surrounded by(you run with the wolves, you get fleas). Sure 40 hours a week is spent on school grounds with various teachers and students but the other 60+ plus waking hours is often with family.
- goalieca 2y ago
  > 60+ plus waking hours is often with family. I chuckled a little because I know so many high achieving families where one or both of the parents get home at bedtime or after bedtime quite regularly. This is especially exaggerated at younger ages when the kids go to bed earlier. Extended-day childcare can go 10 hours or longer for toddlers.
ReleaseCandidat 2y ago
The teachers of such a school aren't there because they want to change the system either. And the administration wants the school to stay a "HAS". So no incentive for anybody involved.
tcbawo 2y ago
There was a quote from Winston Churchill that I saw once: “ No one can guarantee success in war, but only deserve it.” When it comes to sports, school — anything really — I try to tell my kids that all they can do is prepare and do their best. They might win and not deserve it. They might also lose. But if they came prepared, did their best, and handled themselves with class, then they deserved victory.
jasode 2y ago
>Instead we try hard to praise the effort, especially when our kids fail. That type of advice depends on particular circumstances so you have to explain the different situations so kids are not confused by getting mixed messages. (1) sometimes the effort is more important than the result. E.g. kids attempt to cook a meal for Mother's Day and they burn the food a bit. Or one is self-learning dancing or pottery and the results are not professional quality and it doesn't matter. (2) but sometimes, the result is more important than the effort. The "real world" out there such as job performance reviews, college entrance SAT scores, etc cares about the results. If the judge finds the results unacceptable and the only comeback is "but I tried really really hard", it will be perceived as just making excuses. Each situation above has also been misapplied. The infamous "Tiger Mom" focused too much on (2) and criticized her daughter for a amateur hand-drawn Mother's Day card and told her to do it again. Likewise, employees are sometimes blindsided and shocked for being fired for "underperformance" because they misapply (1) to the employer/employee relationship.
- tcbawo 2y ago
  It’s a very difficult problem to know what your children are capable of. Both extremes are likely to build resentment. Believing that your children are always capable of more, and not celebrating success can lead to a black hole of success chasing. Underestimating your children and overvaluing minor successes can lead to insecurity and lack of work ethic. Being a parent is hard.

Willingham 2y ago

I second this, ultimately a large part of who we all are is who we are surrounded by(you run with the wolves, you get fleas). Sure 40 hours a week is spent on school grounds with various teachers and students but the other 60+ plus waking hours is often with family.

goalieca 2y ago
> 60+ plus waking hours is often with family. I chuckled a little because I know so many high achieving families where one or both of the parents get home at bedtime or after bedtime quite regularly. This is especially exaggerated at younger ages when the kids go to bed earlier. Extended-day childcare can go 10 hours or longer for toddlers.

ReleaseCandidat 2y ago

The teachers of such a school aren't there because they want to change the system either. And the administration wants the school to stay a "HAS". So no incentive for anybody involved.

tcbawo 2y ago

There was a quote from Winston Churchill that I saw once: “ No one can guarantee success in war, but only deserve it.” When it comes to sports, school — anything really — I try to tell my kids that all they can do is prepare and do their best. They might win and not deserve it. They might also lose. But if they came prepared, did their best, and handled themselves with class, then they deserved victory.

jasode 2y ago

>Instead we try hard to praise the effort, especially when our kids fail. That type of advice depends on particular circumstances so you have to explain the different situations so kids are not confused by getting mixed messages. (1) sometimes the effort is more important than the result. E.g. kids attempt to cook a meal for Mother's Day and they burn the food a bit. Or one is self-learning dancing or pottery and the results are not professional quality and it doesn't matter. (2) but sometimes, the result is more important than the effort. The "real world" out there such as job performance reviews, college entrance SAT scores, etc cares about the results. If the judge finds the results unacceptable and the only comeback is "but I tried really really hard", it will be perceived as just making excuses. Each situation above has also been misapplied. The infamous "Tiger Mom" focused too much on (2) and criticized her daughter for a amateur hand-drawn Mother's Day card and told her to do it again. Likewise, employees are sometimes blindsided and shocked for being fired for "underperformance" because they misapply (1) to the employer/employee relationship.

tcbawo 2y ago
It’s a very difficult problem to know what your children are capable of. Both extremes are likely to build resentment. Believing that your children are always capable of more, and not celebrating success can lead to a black hole of success chasing. Underestimating your children and overvaluing minor successes can lead to insecurity and lack of work ethic. Being a parent is hard.