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> Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty is an American government-funded international media organization The purpose of RFERL is to produce news items that are cove

by danoni 2y ago

> Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty is an American government-funded international media organization The purpose of RFERL is to produce news items that are covertly critical of the enemy. It adds up with other resources to paint a negative image of the enemy.

yladiz 2y ago
Which enemy?
- KeplerBoy 2y ago
  Russia? The west is in a war-like situation with Russia. Portraying them as stupid, drunk rednecks who ravage trough the environment certainly fits the narrative. Doesn't mean it's not true though.
  - danoni 2y ago
    There is no direct confrontation because that would be WWIII. Only proxy wars like the one happening now. RFERL is US-government funded, and the audience is mainly eastern Europe. Even PBS in the US is not funded by the US government. Why exclusively fund RFERL for a foreign audience if you do not fund your national public broadcaster?
    - _visgean 2y ago
      > Why exclusively fund RFERL for a foreign audience if you do not fund your national public broadcaster? Because the US media market is quite saturated and developed (or at least was when any of this was made into law) compared to countries where media is actively supressed.
      - danoni 2y ago
        I don't see that. Quality news reporting is lacking. Investigative journalism is almost dead. The mainstream media is on a war footing. There have been 0 interviews with J Mearsheimer on mainstream US media.
    - input_sh 2y ago
      Don't worry, it's not just eastern Europe. There's also Radio Free Asia, Current Time TV (in Russian), Middle East Broadcasting Networks, Radio Televisión Martí (targeting Cuba) and of course, Voice of America, all under USAGM (Agency for Global Media).
    - somenameforme 2y ago
      RFERL is a propaganda outlet that was established by the CIA as a weapon against the Soviets during the Cold War. [1] And in 1948, just before this all started kicking off, the Smith-Mundt [2] act was passed which prohibited the government disseminating propaganda domestically. That act was then repealed in 2013, because reasons. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Liberty#Early_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Libert... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Act
      - snakeyjake 2y ago
        > That act was then repealed in 2013, because reasons It wasn't repealed, it was amended. In 2012. To provide an Arabic/Pashto/Urdu/etc. language source of information for speakers of those languages within the US due to a lack of coverage by domestic US broadcasters. (not "reasons") For example: You are an Arabic-speaking individual living in the midwest of the US where you were resettled after getting refugee status. There almost no domestically-produced news sources in Arabic. Al-monitor exists, but they were founded the same year the act was amended, for the same reasons, and unfortunately while many of their articles are written in native language, many others seem to be machine-translated and no matter what the AI/ML hypelords think, that ain't it boss.
        somenameforme 2y ago
        You're correct, but rather in the worst of ways. The worst parts of the act, those that specifically enable and fund government produced propaganda were maintained. All the parts that limit its domestic dissemination were removed. So for instance one of the first effects of this change are described here. [1] --- An unnamed Pentagon official who was concerned about the 2012 law version stated: "It removes the protection for Americans. It removes oversight from the people who want to put out this information. There are no checks and balances. No one knows if the information is accurate, partially accurate, or entirely false."[39] The monthly magazine The Atlantic echoed those concerns by pointing out to two USA Today journalists who became target of a smear and propaganda campaign after they reported that the U.S. military "information operations" program spent millions of U.S. dollars in marketing campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq criticized as ineffective and poorly monitored.[36][42] As it turned out, Camille Chidiac, who executed the marketing campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan, admitted to be a part of the smear and propaganda campaign against the USA Today reporters.[43] --- It's the same sort of stuff as when the exact same government administration also passed a law enabling the indefinite detention of American citizens without trial (that also remains to this day), again because reasons. [2] Incidentally it was passed in the exact same completely undemocratic way both times - by shoving it into a must-pass defense authorization bill. It's a suggestive pattern of behavior that's quite telling, especially given where we've ended up at today. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2013#Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Modernization_Act_of_2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012#Detention_without_trial:_Section_1021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization...
  - distances 2y ago
    That article is from 2016.
    - TheBlight 2y ago
      It could be argued that Ukraine's 2014 revolution occurred with the backing of the US and was the most immediate precursor to the present situation. I'm not claiming it was or wasn't just that there is a case this was brewing long before 2022.
      - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        When the strongest evidence is 'the Americans handed out cookies to those protesting for independence' I'm not sure it's really an 'argument'.
        TheBlight 2y ago
        To what extent do we expect to see direct evidence the Euromaidan protests were instigated/leveraged by intelligence officers and associated cutouts for strategic purposes? I don't know and the lack of concrete evidence makes me reluctant to draw any firm conclusions but a comment from a former intelligence analyst seems interesting to me: From https://www.democracynow.org/2014/3/3/who_is_provoking_the_unrest_in https://www.democracynow.org/2014/3/3/who_is_provoking_the_u...: "RAY McGOVERN: Well, a couple of things. You know, it really depends more on who seizes control of these uprisings. If you look at Bahrain, you know, if you look at Syria—even Egypt, to an extent—these were initially popular uprisings. The question is: Who took them over? Who spurred them? Who provoked them even more for their own particular strategic interests? And it’s very clear what’s happened to the Ukraine. It used to be the CIA doing these things. I know that for a fact. OK, now it’s the National Endowment for Democracy, a hundred million bucks, 62 projects in the Ukraine. So, again, you don’t have to be a paranoid Russian to suggest that, you know, they’re really trying to do what they—do in the Ukraine what they’ve done in the rest of Eastern Europe and elsewhere."
        cpursley 2y ago
        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    Looting of national treasures is pretty typical of Russia. A large country, the tsar (or the government) is far away, local governors can be bribed ... unless you do something that endangers the entire country/system, you can get away with a lot.
_visgean 2y ago
> covertly critical of the enemy The radio is now based in Prague, it has a long history here and most people were quite happy to hear some real news during the communism. People tuning in risked prison time just to hear something else. I would not say you needed to be overtly critical, it was enough to just bring real news.
- TomK32 2y ago
  In Nazi Germany you risked a lot more than prison for listening to the BBC, though most death sentences were in combination with some treason accusations. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verordnung_%C3%BCber_au%C3%9Ferordentliche_Rundfunkma%C3%9Fnahmen https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verordnung_%C3%BCber_au%C3%9Fe...
orbital-decay 2y ago
How do you even report stuff like that without being "critical"? That's a legitimate issue covered in Russian media as well. Here's one of the multiple official reports, for example. https://www.archeo.ru/press-relizy/nezakonnye-ohotniki-za-bivnem-mamonta-za-10-let-razrushili-v-sibirskoi-arktike-sem-arheologicheskih-pamyatnikov https://www.archeo.ru/press-relizy/nezakonnye-ohotniki-za-bi...
- badpun 2y ago
  When doing propaganda, subject selection is the key factor. If you want to do a smear campaign, you just do honest reporting, but only of the things about your target that are negative.
  - btilly 2y ago
    Example, NYT reporting on the tech industry. I wish I was making that up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33473275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33473275
- stevenwoo 2y ago
  The Russian guys just seemed desperate for a job and most of them lose money with a few striking it rich keeping the cycle going. I would blame the black market in China and Vietnam more, since it also causes the same sort of issue with wild rhino and elephant populations in Africa.
TomK32 2y ago
Russia and China are doing it on a much worse level and as the language barriers are quite high we don't see and hear of what they say about the West in their media. The French-German broadcaster ARTE has a good series called Fake News that lifts the curtain a bit https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlQWnS27jXh8H1ej2-Sk052ISO-eoHSLG https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlQWnS27jXh8H1ej2-Sk0...
- somenameforme 2y ago
  There is no curtain whatsoever in modern times. Russian auto-translates excellently. Here [1] is the largest Russian state media site. Chinese is a bit bumpier, but it's also fully readable. [2] There's nothing particularly extreme, except insomuch as nationalism has become a bad-word somehow, and their media does focus heavily on culture, history, and national identity. Granted, Russia is quite negative towards the US, but probably no more than you'd expect if roles were reversed and Russia decided to just join the party in one of our many misguided invasions, upping the ante ever higher each time a game-changer failed to change the game. [1] - https://tass-ru.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://tass-ru.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x... [2] - https://www-people-cn.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-people-cn.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_s...
- zrn900 2y ago
  > Russia and China are doing it on a much worse level They arent. The two things that crippled the Eastern Bloc's propaganda efforts was 1) Fear of getting caught lying and losing credibility and therefore not lying 2) Doing propaganda by stating facts in dry, formal language. The US has perfected the lying, smearing emotional manipulation propaganda early in the Cold War and it still keeps doing it. There isn't one single country that does it like that. So, no, Russia and China arent doing it 'on a much worse level' - they are incompetent. The very fact that you have this 'perception' that its not the country that lied about nonexistent WMDs for almost a decade but 'others' who are doing 'worse propaganda' is a demonstration of how far worse the US propaganda is.
  - 2y ago

by danoni 2y ago

yladiz 2y ago

Which enemy?

KeplerBoy 2y ago
Russia? The west is in a war-like situation with Russia. Portraying them as stupid, drunk rednecks who ravage trough the environment certainly fits the narrative. Doesn't mean it's not true though.
- danoni 2y ago
  There is no direct confrontation because that would be WWIII. Only proxy wars like the one happening now. RFERL is US-government funded, and the audience is mainly eastern Europe. Even PBS in the US is not funded by the US government. Why exclusively fund RFERL for a foreign audience if you do not fund your national public broadcaster?
  - _visgean 2y ago
    > Why exclusively fund RFERL for a foreign audience if you do not fund your national public broadcaster? Because the US media market is quite saturated and developed (or at least was when any of this was made into law) compared to countries where media is actively supressed.
    - danoni 2y ago
      I don't see that. Quality news reporting is lacking. Investigative journalism is almost dead. The mainstream media is on a war footing. There have been 0 interviews with J Mearsheimer on mainstream US media.
  - input_sh 2y ago
    Don't worry, it's not just eastern Europe. There's also Radio Free Asia, Current Time TV (in Russian), Middle East Broadcasting Networks, Radio Televisión Martí (targeting Cuba) and of course, Voice of America, all under USAGM (Agency for Global Media).
  - somenameforme 2y ago
    RFERL is a propaganda outlet that was established by the CIA as a weapon against the Soviets during the Cold War. [1] And in 1948, just before this all started kicking off, the Smith-Mundt [2] act was passed which prohibited the government disseminating propaganda domestically. That act was then repealed in 2013, because reasons. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Liberty#Early_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Libert... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Act
    - snakeyjake 2y ago
      > That act was then repealed in 2013, because reasons It wasn't repealed, it was amended. In 2012. To provide an Arabic/Pashto/Urdu/etc. language source of information for speakers of those languages within the US due to a lack of coverage by domestic US broadcasters. (not "reasons") For example: You are an Arabic-speaking individual living in the midwest of the US where you were resettled after getting refugee status. There almost no domestically-produced news sources in Arabic. Al-monitor exists, but they were founded the same year the act was amended, for the same reasons, and unfortunately while many of their articles are written in native language, many others seem to be machine-translated and no matter what the AI/ML hypelords think, that ain't it boss.
      - somenameforme 2y ago
        You're correct, but rather in the worst of ways. The worst parts of the act, those that specifically enable and fund government produced propaganda were maintained. All the parts that limit its domestic dissemination were removed. So for instance one of the first effects of this change are described here. [1] --- An unnamed Pentagon official who was concerned about the 2012 law version stated: "It removes the protection for Americans. It removes oversight from the people who want to put out this information. There are no checks and balances. No one knows if the information is accurate, partially accurate, or entirely false."[39] The monthly magazine The Atlantic echoed those concerns by pointing out to two USA Today journalists who became target of a smear and propaganda campaign after they reported that the U.S. military "information operations" program spent millions of U.S. dollars in marketing campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq criticized as ineffective and poorly monitored.[36][42] As it turned out, Camille Chidiac, who executed the marketing campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan, admitted to be a part of the smear and propaganda campaign against the USA Today reporters.[43] --- It's the same sort of stuff as when the exact same government administration also passed a law enabling the indefinite detention of American citizens without trial (that also remains to this day), again because reasons. [2] Incidentally it was passed in the exact same completely undemocratic way both times - by shoving it into a must-pass defense authorization bill. It's a suggestive pattern of behavior that's quite telling, especially given where we've ended up at today. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2013#Smith%E2%80%93Mundt_Modernization_Act_of_2012 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012#Detention_without_trial:_Section_1021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization...
- distances 2y ago
  That article is from 2016.
  - TheBlight 2y ago
    It could be argued that Ukraine's 2014 revolution occurred with the backing of the US and was the most immediate precursor to the present situation. I'm not claiming it was or wasn't just that there is a case this was brewing long before 2022.
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      When the strongest evidence is 'the Americans handed out cookies to those protesting for independence' I'm not sure it's really an 'argument'.
      - TheBlight 2y ago
        To what extent do we expect to see direct evidence the Euromaidan protests were instigated/leveraged by intelligence officers and associated cutouts for strategic purposes? I don't know and the lack of concrete evidence makes me reluctant to draw any firm conclusions but a comment from a former intelligence analyst seems interesting to me: From https://www.democracynow.org/2014/3/3/who_is_provoking_the_unrest_in https://www.democracynow.org/2014/3/3/who_is_provoking_the_u...: "RAY McGOVERN: Well, a couple of things. You know, it really depends more on who seizes control of these uprisings. If you look at Bahrain, you know, if you look at Syria—even Egypt, to an extent—these were initially popular uprisings. The question is: Who took them over? Who spurred them? Who provoked them even more for their own particular strategic interests? And it’s very clear what’s happened to the Ukraine. It used to be the CIA doing these things. I know that for a fact. OK, now it’s the National Endowment for Democracy, a hundred million bucks, 62 projects in the Ukraine. So, again, you don’t have to be a paranoid Russian to suggest that, you know, they’re really trying to do what they—do in the Ukraine what they’ve done in the rest of Eastern Europe and elsewhere."
      - cpursley 2y ago
        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  Looting of national treasures is pretty typical of Russia. A large country, the tsar (or the government) is far away, local governors can be bribed ... unless you do something that endangers the entire country/system, you can get away with a lot.

_visgean 2y ago

> covertly critical of the enemy The radio is now based in Prague, it has a long history here and most people were quite happy to hear some real news during the communism. People tuning in risked prison time just to hear something else. I would not say you needed to be overtly critical, it was enough to just bring real news.

TomK32 2y ago
In Nazi Germany you risked a lot more than prison for listening to the BBC, though most death sentences were in combination with some treason accusations. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verordnung_%C3%BCber_au%C3%9Ferordentliche_Rundfunkma%C3%9Fnahmen https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verordnung_%C3%BCber_au%C3%9Fe...

orbital-decay 2y ago

How do you even report stuff like that without being "critical"? That's a legitimate issue covered in Russian media as well. Here's one of the multiple official reports, for example. https://www.archeo.ru/press-relizy/nezakonnye-ohotniki-za-bivnem-mamonta-za-10-let-razrushili-v-sibirskoi-arktike-sem-arheologicheskih-pamyatnikov https://www.archeo.ru/press-relizy/nezakonnye-ohotniki-za-bi...

badpun 2y ago
When doing propaganda, subject selection is the key factor. If you want to do a smear campaign, you just do honest reporting, but only of the things about your target that are negative.
- btilly 2y ago
  Example, NYT reporting on the tech industry. I wish I was making that up. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33473275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33473275
stevenwoo 2y ago
The Russian guys just seemed desperate for a job and most of them lose money with a few striking it rich keeping the cycle going. I would blame the black market in China and Vietnam more, since it also causes the same sort of issue with wild rhino and elephant populations in Africa.

TomK32 2y ago

Russia and China are doing it on a much worse level and as the language barriers are quite high we don't see and hear of what they say about the West in their media. The French-German broadcaster ARTE has a good series called Fake News that lifts the curtain a bit https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlQWnS27jXh8H1ej2-Sk052ISO-eoHSLG https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlQWnS27jXh8H1ej2-Sk0...

somenameforme 2y ago
There is no curtain whatsoever in modern times. Russian auto-translates excellently. Here [1] is the largest Russian state media site. Chinese is a bit bumpier, but it's also fully readable. [2] There's nothing particularly extreme, except insomuch as nationalism has become a bad-word somehow, and their media does focus heavily on culture, history, and national identity. Granted, Russia is quite negative towards the US, but probably no more than you'd expect if roles were reversed and Russia decided to just join the party in one of our many misguided invasions, upping the ante ever higher each time a game-changer failed to change the game. [1] - https://tass-ru.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://tass-ru.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x... [2] - https://www-people-cn.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-people-cn.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_s...
zrn900 2y ago
> Russia and China are doing it on a much worse level They arent. The two things that crippled the Eastern Bloc's propaganda efforts was 1) Fear of getting caught lying and losing credibility and therefore not lying 2) Doing propaganda by stating facts in dry, formal language. The US has perfected the lying, smearing emotional manipulation propaganda early in the Cold War and it still keeps doing it. There isn't one single country that does it like that. So, no, Russia and China arent doing it 'on a much worse level' - they are incompetent. The very fact that you have this 'perception' that its not the country that lied about nonexistent WMDs for almost a decade but 'others' who are doing 'worse propaganda' is a demonstration of how far worse the US propaganda is.
- 2y ago