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What would be an example of a macro process causing a micro without going through micro processes? I would think the best you can do is something like fractal
by naasking 2y ago
What would be an example of a macro process causing a micro without going through micro processes?
I would think the best you can do is something like fractal geometry, where self-similarity appears at all scales. In some sense, the rules are both micro and macroscopic. An example where this might have real-world implications is Palmer's Invariant Set Theory, which suggests that this fractal structure shapes both cosmological structures and what we see in quantum theory, eg. like violations of Bell's inequality,
- boxfire 2y agoThe Mars global dust storm is caused by coupling of angular momentum of the (solar) system, a global a effect. The Mars system itself down to the dust does not create sufficient conditions
- naasking 2y agoThat coupling is due to aggregate interactions of all system particles, so it's still comes down to a cumulative microscopic effect. Pretty good example though!
- boxfire 2y agoI think one of the reasons I have that example is that specific dynamic is cited in most planetary science texts as "de-coupled", "invariant", etc etc, when in fact it's the major casual influence here, which was quite a surprise in recent years [glances at climate mostly still beating to the tune that particle inertia does not have to care about the system angular momentum variance at the solar system scale]
- Erem 2y agoWould lunar gravity -> tides -> waves -> erosion of particles from a rock count?
- tines 2y ago"Lunar gravity" is the effect of innumerable individual particles exerting a gravitational force, so that's not really macro.
- Erem 2y agoPerhaps the effect of the fundamental physical constants like c, Plancks constant, and the permittivity of free space? They are macro in that their effects permeate all of existence without variation, but they give rise to the behavior of all particles On the other hand, you could argue that they’re not “real” and therefore not macro
- Blahah 2y agoMedicine
- benfarahmand 2y agoI can't think of physical processes that could go from macro -> micro. The examples I can think of stem from Yuval Harari's human fictions affecting the world. For example, a nation state or a corporation or a story could set the stage for the macro affecting the micro. If we look at a story, it communicates an idea that changes the behaviors of humans, which in turn causes those humans to interact with the micro and the macro. As I'm writing this out and thinking about it, where would fictional objects fit on the micro <--> macro axis?
- naasking 2y agoFictions are encoded in the brain's microstates and drive its behaviour, comparable to how gate charge on transistors drives a computer state. But that is an interesting thought, because all of those microstates and their evolution are counterfactually described by a computer program, and much like math, perhaps a computer program in some sense has a platonic existence that isn't reducible to physical states. I probably wouldn't go in that direction, but some philosophers have made this case for math.
- GoblinSlayer 2y agoMaxwell demon?