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There's a bit difference between building a business that preys on the fears of a new parent and a business that acknowledges that new parents already have fear

by elemeno 14y ago

There's a bit difference between building a business that preys on the fears of a new parent and a business that acknowledges that new parents already have fears and tries to reduce them. This I would say falls firmly into the later category. It's the difference between a tool which helps you make sure that your baby is ok and one which tries to persuade you that if you don't use it you're creating unconscionable risks to your baby which this product could save you from. The former is a tool which is good, the later is one which preys on parents.

JoeAltmaier 14y ago
Totally disagree. The two devices are one and the same. Checking on your baby in the middle of the night because you woke with a sudden fear - normal parent anxiety, makes a funny story later. Providing a device to allow constant electronic monitoring - validating an irrational fear, reinforces anxiety, feeds into an obsessive loop, invents issues for new parents just when they need to be calm and rational.
- elemeno 14y ago
  We clearly disagree on a fairly basic level. I'm very much of the opinion that anything which causes peace of mind is good thing and teaches the parents that their fears aren't grounded in reality. I'd say that most the fears that new parents have are rational in the overarching sense (in that it's entirely rational for a parent to worry about about their baby's health whenever the baby seems to deviating from the expected), but new parents lack the knowledge to determine if any one particular event is something that constitues an actual emergency, or is perfectly normal. Babies commonly have minor health problems (such as colic or jaundice) when they're very young which don't require medical attention, but sometimes they do require attention and it can be hard to tell which is which since babies only have very limited ways to express that they're suffering. A tool which provides more information to the parents (like, say, being able to see that the baby's heart rate or respiration has dramatically changed and so they might not be crying as a result of colic, but because there's something else wrong) and let's them make a more informed decision is clearly of benefit and is by no means 'validating an irrational fear'.
  - JoeAltmaier 14y ago
    Peace of mind is most often effected by turning the mind from obsessive loops. Selling expensive gadgets to nervous parents is way too tempting a profit center to be responsibly marketed. How about by prescription only? That would be a reasonable compromise. Ideally someone objective could be put into picture, to prevent abuse.
    - jeremyarussell 14y ago
      I wasn't aware we had good indicators for SID. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002533/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002533/ Lists some. Right after saying we don't know what causes it. The things listed are pretty generic, like smoking around a mother expecting, etc. But nothing a hundred percent. It's also the biggest cause of death in children under one year of age. Not sure where you are getting that it's something not to worry about. I do wonder how many children you've had though. Edit: Oh the point's made above were to beg the how would one get prescribed something that so far seems pretty random.
      - JoeAltmaier 14y ago
        Oh, yeah, good point, attack me instead of the argument when you run out of things to say. I have 3 kids. I trusted in fate to take care of things I had no control over, and was lucky they lived to be healthy confident adults. I know of super-careful parents that raised precious children frightened of the world. That loses something too - like the purpose of living. I know engineers want to solve everything with an engineering solution. That way leads madness. Next we'll be sticking monitors in the womb, because, you know, sometimes the foetus doesn't develop right and maybe we can do something about that too.
- cbsmith 14y ago
  I'm sorry no. The expression of "preying on parents fears/anxiety as marketing a device" is not literal. It is about drumming up those fears at the time of the sale, not at the time fo the use. In short, if I make no claims about making the motivator of your fears go away, but I do make claims about helping you manage the fears themselves, that isn't preying on your fears and anxiety. I believe the technical term for that is "helping". The obsessive loop is, "maybe my baby isn't breathing <-> check on baby <-> it's breathing <-> go back <-> maybe my baby isn't breathing". If you can go right from, "maybe my baby isn't breathing <-> of course not, this idiot box would tell me if he/she weren't" (and sure it's fair that that is far from certain), that's huge progress and it can deflate obsessive compulsive behaviour, anxiety and fear. It's the equivalent of giving a kid a stuff toy so they aren't scared in bed at night.

by elemeno 14y ago

JoeAltmaier 14y ago

Totally disagree. The two devices are one and the same. Checking on your baby in the middle of the night because you woke with a sudden fear - normal parent anxiety, makes a funny story later. Providing a device to allow constant electronic monitoring - validating an irrational fear, reinforces anxiety, feeds into an obsessive loop, invents issues for new parents just when they need to be calm and rational.

elemeno 14y ago
We clearly disagree on a fairly basic level. I'm very much of the opinion that anything which causes peace of mind is good thing and teaches the parents that their fears aren't grounded in reality. I'd say that most the fears that new parents have are rational in the overarching sense (in that it's entirely rational for a parent to worry about about their baby's health whenever the baby seems to deviating from the expected), but new parents lack the knowledge to determine if any one particular event is something that constitues an actual emergency, or is perfectly normal. Babies commonly have minor health problems (such as colic or jaundice) when they're very young which don't require medical attention, but sometimes they do require attention and it can be hard to tell which is which since babies only have very limited ways to express that they're suffering. A tool which provides more information to the parents (like, say, being able to see that the baby's heart rate or respiration has dramatically changed and so they might not be crying as a result of colic, but because there's something else wrong) and let's them make a more informed decision is clearly of benefit and is by no means 'validating an irrational fear'.
- JoeAltmaier 14y ago
  Peace of mind is most often effected by turning the mind from obsessive loops. Selling expensive gadgets to nervous parents is way too tempting a profit center to be responsibly marketed. How about by prescription only? That would be a reasonable compromise. Ideally someone objective could be put into picture, to prevent abuse.
  - jeremyarussell 14y ago
    I wasn't aware we had good indicators for SID. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002533/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002533/ Lists some. Right after saying we don't know what causes it. The things listed are pretty generic, like smoking around a mother expecting, etc. But nothing a hundred percent. It's also the biggest cause of death in children under one year of age. Not sure where you are getting that it's something not to worry about. I do wonder how many children you've had though. Edit: Oh the point's made above were to beg the how would one get prescribed something that so far seems pretty random.
    - JoeAltmaier 14y ago
      Oh, yeah, good point, attack me instead of the argument when you run out of things to say. I have 3 kids. I trusted in fate to take care of things I had no control over, and was lucky they lived to be healthy confident adults. I know of super-careful parents that raised precious children frightened of the world. That loses something too - like the purpose of living. I know engineers want to solve everything with an engineering solution. That way leads madness. Next we'll be sticking monitors in the womb, because, you know, sometimes the foetus doesn't develop right and maybe we can do something about that too.
cbsmith 14y ago
I'm sorry no. The expression of "preying on parents fears/anxiety as marketing a device" is not literal. It is about drumming up those fears at the time of the sale, not at the time fo the use. In short, if I make no claims about making the motivator of your fears go away, but I do make claims about helping you manage the fears themselves, that isn't preying on your fears and anxiety. I believe the technical term for that is "helping". The obsessive loop is, "maybe my baby isn't breathing <-> check on baby <-> it's breathing <-> go back <-> maybe my baby isn't breathing". If you can go right from, "maybe my baby isn't breathing <-> of course not, this idiot box would tell me if he/she weren't" (and sure it's fair that that is far from certain), that's huge progress and it can deflate obsessive compulsive behaviour, anxiety and fear. It's the equivalent of giving a kid a stuff toy so they aren't scared in bed at night.