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> All in all, this is not science It's not trying to be. The intended audience is not peers reading a research journal, it's normal folks and policy makers who

> All in all, this is not science It's not trying to be. The intended audience is not peers reading a research journal, it's normal folks and policy makers who don't know what a confounding variable is but still want to make modern life suck less.

potatoman22 2y ago
Since the audience isn't technical enough to realize the author excluded confounders, doesn't that make it even worse?
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
  Confounders or not, kids don't have crap for communities. They have 24/7 adulting, most of it spent in one building or another. source:5 kids. source:15 years scout leader. source:10 years youth leader, other.
  - jasonfarnon 2y ago
    I hear a lot about excessive parenting on here but I wonder if it's just a segment of society. Can anyone but wealthy parents have time to occupy their kids 24-7? The freedom I and friends had as a kid was not a decision of my parents so much as a necessity. Parents dont get home from work until 6, school lets out at 2, we get at least 4 free hours of undisturbed freedom. Why would that be different now?
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      I think the idea of 24/7 parenting has is definitely not universal, given the amount of unsupervised time spent online and gaming. I suspect most of this time just moved from streets and parks to bedrooms in front of a screen.
    - richk449 2y ago
      An event that happens much too often to me: My son is playing with other kids. I wander off. When I check back, all the kids are watching a screen. I say “what’s going on?” And some parent says “the kids were getting roudy, so I put on a show to calm them down”.
      - InitialLastName 2y ago
        Related: Every single one of my toddler's grandparents defaults to sticking a phone in his face (and has since he was a baby). Like, they all managed to raise children into moderately functional adults without heavy use of smartphones, and have had explicit instructions not to do that. Why do they think it's the thing to do?
      - irjustin 2y ago
        > My son is playing with other kids. I wander off. When I check back, all the kids are watching a screen. I say “what’s going on?” And some parent says “the kids were getting roudy, so I put on a show to calm them down”. Ooof this is me on Sundays - the only day allowed screen time, but man yea, if our girls are by themselves then a screen for them and a screen for me and we're all happy.
      - inanutshellus 2y ago
        Also relevant: If you try to encourage non-screen time socially, their friends stop coming over. At best, your kid will just want to leave the house to go watch tv/play video games over at the friend's house, but just as likely is that the kid stops having a friend because they're not mindshared in anymore.
  - zdragnar 2y ago
    Add on top of that the communities they do have are all virtual. Virtual groups are a fine addition to, but not a good replacement for physical interaction. Being in physical proximity is just a fundamentally different experience. I remember rather fondly the days of LAN parties, and a small part of me wishes we had kept the networking without going all the way to the Internet. Yes, the irony of this post, and my career as primarily a developer of websites, is not lost on me.
    - squigz 2y ago
      > Add on top of that the communities they do have are all virtual. Virtual groups are a fine addition to, but not a good replacement for physical interaction. Why not?
      - zdragnar 2y ago
        There are a number of takes on this. Everything from limited physical expressiveness, to fundamentally different and more limited conversational abilities in group settings, to a lack of physical preference having subtle emotional changes in how the setting is experienced and probably more things that have been and are being researched. As a microcosm of community breakdown and virtual replacing physical space, just look at the psychological and social impacts of virtual schooling during COVID-19 lockdowns. Obviously, the existential dread of illness, stress of family finances and restricted freedom are all confounding here, so the extent to which physical versus virtual played a role is debatable. Even so, I don't think there's much debate at all that Zoom meetings are in any way a viable substitute for in person classroom teaching and social development.
      - naasking 2y ago
        If you're being serious, then you're suggesting that it would be perfectly healthy for a person to literally just lie in bed all day and only interact with people virtually. If you think that isn't healthy, then you are acknowledging that virtual groups are not a replacement for physical interaction, even if you disagree with others on how much physical interaction is required.
sircastor 2y ago
I think it's trying to appear to be science. They want the appearance of legitimacy and objectivity to encourage a particular position. A quick read through of the site shows it's a conservative-leaning group, and I'd be willing to bet that sooner-or-later they'll be pushing "a return to traditional values" as the cure for all our ills.
- jasonfarnon 2y ago
  A quick read through of the site shows it's a conservative-leaning group, this is neat, using guilt by association to support a comment alleging the fallacy of guilt by association
- bradleyjg 2y ago
  I think it's trying to appear to be science. This is fairly common in modern rhetoric. Even among scientists—they’ll write a rigorous paper with narrowly drawn conclusions and then give a much broader science-y interview about it.
- WorkerBee28474 2y ago
  > A quick read through of the site shows it's a conservative-leaning group While there's nothing wrong with being conservative, the group's founder is a self-described Democrat. > I'd be willing to bet that sooner-or-later they'll be pushing "a return to traditional values" as the cure for all our ills If "growing up in close-knit communities" (from the article) is a traditional value, then yes, they are saying that would be a good thing.
  - peterdobs 2y ago
    [dead]
- naasking 2y ago
  > A quick read through of the site shows it's a conservative-leaning group It's conservative-leaning because...?
- mike_hearn 2y ago

potatoman22 2y ago

Since the audience isn't technical enough to realize the author excluded confounders, doesn't that make it even worse?

WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
Confounders or not, kids don't have crap for communities. They have 24/7 adulting, most of it spent in one building or another. source:5 kids. source:15 years scout leader. source:10 years youth leader, other.
- jasonfarnon 2y ago
  I hear a lot about excessive parenting on here but I wonder if it's just a segment of society. Can anyone but wealthy parents have time to occupy their kids 24-7? The freedom I and friends had as a kid was not a decision of my parents so much as a necessity. Parents dont get home from work until 6, school lets out at 2, we get at least 4 free hours of undisturbed freedom. Why would that be different now?
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I think the idea of 24/7 parenting has is definitely not universal, given the amount of unsupervised time spent online and gaming. I suspect most of this time just moved from streets and parks to bedrooms in front of a screen.
  - richk449 2y ago
    An event that happens much too often to me: My son is playing with other kids. I wander off. When I check back, all the kids are watching a screen. I say “what’s going on?” And some parent says “the kids were getting roudy, so I put on a show to calm them down”.
    - InitialLastName 2y ago
      Related: Every single one of my toddler's grandparents defaults to sticking a phone in his face (and has since he was a baby). Like, they all managed to raise children into moderately functional adults without heavy use of smartphones, and have had explicit instructions not to do that. Why do they think it's the thing to do?
    - irjustin 2y ago
      > My son is playing with other kids. I wander off. When I check back, all the kids are watching a screen. I say “what’s going on?” And some parent says “the kids were getting roudy, so I put on a show to calm them down”. Ooof this is me on Sundays - the only day allowed screen time, but man yea, if our girls are by themselves then a screen for them and a screen for me and we're all happy.
    - inanutshellus 2y ago
      Also relevant: If you try to encourage non-screen time socially, their friends stop coming over. At best, your kid will just want to leave the house to go watch tv/play video games over at the friend's house, but just as likely is that the kid stops having a friend because they're not mindshared in anymore.
- zdragnar 2y ago
  Add on top of that the communities they do have are all virtual. Virtual groups are a fine addition to, but not a good replacement for physical interaction. Being in physical proximity is just a fundamentally different experience. I remember rather fondly the days of LAN parties, and a small part of me wishes we had kept the networking without going all the way to the Internet. Yes, the irony of this post, and my career as primarily a developer of websites, is not lost on me.
  - squigz 2y ago
    > Add on top of that the communities they do have are all virtual. Virtual groups are a fine addition to, but not a good replacement for physical interaction. Why not?
    - zdragnar 2y ago
      There are a number of takes on this. Everything from limited physical expressiveness, to fundamentally different and more limited conversational abilities in group settings, to a lack of physical preference having subtle emotional changes in how the setting is experienced and probably more things that have been and are being researched. As a microcosm of community breakdown and virtual replacing physical space, just look at the psychological and social impacts of virtual schooling during COVID-19 lockdowns. Obviously, the existential dread of illness, stress of family finances and restricted freedom are all confounding here, so the extent to which physical versus virtual played a role is debatable. Even so, I don't think there's much debate at all that Zoom meetings are in any way a viable substitute for in person classroom teaching and social development.
    - naasking 2y ago
      If you're being serious, then you're suggesting that it would be perfectly healthy for a person to literally just lie in bed all day and only interact with people virtually. If you think that isn't healthy, then you are acknowledging that virtual groups are not a replacement for physical interaction, even if you disagree with others on how much physical interaction is required.

sircastor 2y ago

I think it's trying to appear to be science. They want the appearance of legitimacy and objectivity to encourage a particular position. A quick read through of the site shows it's a conservative-leaning group, and I'd be willing to bet that sooner-or-later they'll be pushing "a return to traditional values" as the cure for all our ills.

jasonfarnon 2y ago
A quick read through of the site shows it's a conservative-leaning group, this is neat, using guilt by association to support a comment alleging the fallacy of guilt by association
bradleyjg 2y ago
I think it's trying to appear to be science. This is fairly common in modern rhetoric. Even among scientists—they’ll write a rigorous paper with narrowly drawn conclusions and then give a much broader science-y interview about it.
WorkerBee28474 2y ago
> A quick read through of the site shows it's a conservative-leaning group While there's nothing wrong with being conservative, the group's founder is a self-described Democrat. > I'd be willing to bet that sooner-or-later they'll be pushing "a return to traditional values" as the cure for all our ills If "growing up in close-knit communities" (from the article) is a traditional value, then yes, they are saying that would be a good thing.
- peterdobs 2y ago
  [dead]
naasking 2y ago
> A quick read through of the site shows it's a conservative-leaning group It's conservative-leaning because...?
mike_hearn 2y ago