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Battery life on this is going to be terrible and so is price. The article was probably right that it will land in the 2-4 hour range. For ultrabook type specs y

Battery life on this is going to be terrible and so is price. The article was probably right that it will land in the 2-4 hour range. For ultrabook type specs you'll be paying ultrabook prices. This won't likely be a $500 machine, more like $800-1000. So, $500 iPad3 or $800 for Windows transformer tablet? Sure it will sell, but not in any kind of volume like the iPad. I'm sure Apple could have build this, or still could, but they likely didn't because they coudln't hit mainstream pricing. Nobody has the volume or the operational excellence to compete with Apple on price, quality, or volume without sacrificing profit margins.

dagw 14y ago
So, $500 iPad3 or $800 for Windows transformer tablet? Full keyboard, proper general purpose OS, running a fairly powerful CPU and GPU and offering all your standard set of I/O ports. This is not an iPad competitor, but a Macbook Air competitor, that can also be used as a tablet in a pinch.
- rbanffy 14y ago
  > proper general purpose OS That's debatable ;-) but I concede your point that Windows is more "general purpose" than iOS. > Macbook Air competitor Won't run OSX. It's not a competitor unless you plan running Windows 8 on your Macbook which is not very smart. And iPads can use Apple's wireless keyboards, so, for US$ 50 more you get a really good keyboard you can use with your desktop computer too.
  - ot 14y ago
    How debatable? On Intel you get the desktop and backward-compatibility with old windows applications. What is your definition of general-purpose?
    - rbanffy 14y ago
      I adopt the "works for me" definition which, in the end, is the one I should use to select hardware for my use. Of course, you should probably not use the "works for rbanffy" definition for your own hardware acquisitions. Most of my apps are designed to run on Linux. My IDE is Emacs and my system management tool is a shell. With that in mind, anything that's not Unix-like negatively impacts productivity. I have used Cygwin on Windows but, while it goes great lengths to make Windows a comfortable environment, in the end it's just not worth the effort if you can just run the real thing on your machine. Windows also takes ages to set up with software downloaded from just about everywhere. With Linux, I issue an "apt-get install" and sit back while the environment gets assembled. On a Mac, I have to install the xcode command-line tooling, ports and everything from that point on is completely automated. On Windows I don't even want to think the steps I'd need to take and the buttons I'd need to click before being able to just work.
      - ot 14y ago
        Then it is your definition that is debatable (and self-centric). By the same reasoning Linux is not general-purpose because it does not run Visual Studio. OSX, Linux and Windows are equally general-purpose by all reasonable definitions.
        rbanffy 14y ago
        The only useful definition is a self-centric one because you'll use what you buy. I have no use for a machine that runs Visual Studio or Office, therefore, my criteria for selecting a computer will be very different from someone who needs to run both programs. For someone who wants to run games, a Windows PC with an ATI graphics card would be a good choice. For someone who wants to run Emacs and develop web applications, it's simply not the best one.
  - dagw 14y ago
    Won't run OSX No, but it will run most of the apps that I run on OS X, or apps of equivalent functionality, so who cares. I bought my MBA because it offered the best hardware for my needs at the given price point, not because I'm a slave to OS X. iPads can use Apple's wireless keyboards Sure I can get a keyboard for the iPad, but I still can't (easily) run most of the apps I need to get work done. And as an aside, I'd be fascinated to hear your argument as to how Windows is less general purpose than OS X
    - rbanffy 14y ago
      > will run most of the apps that I run on OS X Good for you. > I'd be fascinated to hear your argument as to how Windows is less general purpose than OS X For me, at least, it's a pain to develop software on Windows. If I did Java development, it'd be relatively painless, but having to rely on Cygwin to have an environment that approximates the servers that will actually run my code is very suboptimal. Don't think I'm a slave to OSX - I'm not, but I'd have a very hard time being productive in an environment that's completely alien to the software I write. Actually, for work, I prefer Linux, but a Mac is fine. And I can play with Xcode and iOS development on it.
  - dpark 14y ago
    > Won't run OSX. It's not a competitor unless you plan running Windows 8 on your Macbook which is not very smart. Am I to understand that you think Apple laptops and Windows laptops are not in competition with each other? Seriously?
    - rbanffy 14y ago
      It depends on what you intend to run. If you want to run either Visual Studio or Xcode, they are completely different machines. Both machines will run Office and a browser if that's your thing.
      - dpark 14y ago
        If you define the market narrowly enough, you could argue that the Honda Civic is not in competition with the Toyota Corolla, but you're just creating a self-serving definition at that point. The vast majority of consumers will never install or run either Visual Studio or Xcode. To most consumers, Windows laptops are in direct competition with Apple laptops, because they are both general purpose computing devices that will do what the consumer needs.
        rbanffy 14y ago
        Does the Honda Civic compete with a Maybach? For most users, Windows laptops, Apple laptops, Chromebooks and iPads are in direct competition. All four do Facebook just fine.
        dpark 14y ago
        > Does the Honda Civic compete with a Maybach? Are you saying that Windows is the Civic while Apple is the Maybach (or vice versa)? This doesn't make a lot of sense, because Apple laptop vs Windows laptop is a comparison of similar products. Civic vs Maybach is a comparison between a low-end consumer product and an extreme luxury item. Exactly 63 Maybachs were sold in the US during all of 2010. So no, I don't think Honda would consider Maybach to be in competition with the Civic, and I assume Maybach is probably not especially concerned with the Civic, either. > For most users, Windows laptops, Apple laptops, Chromebooks and iPads are in direct competition. All four do Facebook just fine. Is this supposed be an argument in favor of your claim that Apple laptops and Windows laptops are not in competition? Because it seems like you're arguing with yourself at this point.
  - cooldeal 14y ago
    >It's not a competitor unless you plan running Windows 8 on your Macbook which is not very smart. Agreed, the Macbook lacks touch hardware. If you're buying hardware for Windows 8, it doesn't make sense to buy one without touch support.
- mtgx 14y ago
  There's no way this will be $800. More like $1200+.
polshaw 14y ago
>$500 iPad3 or $800 for Windows transformer tablet? An ipad does not replace a laptop, the devices aren't equivalent.
- hollerith 14y ago
  For some prospective users it is an acceptable replacement (since most casual users have friends with a "real" computer that they can turn to occasionally) and for some purchasers it is not.
  - recoiledsnake 14y ago
    Sure, Asus just announced another Windows device to fill that need. http://blogs.nvidia.com/2012/06/asus-nvidia-unveil-worlds-first-windows-rt-consumer-device/ http://blogs.nvidia.com/2012/06/asus-nvidia-unveil-worlds-fi...
  - polshaw 14y ago
    And for some people a bike is acceptable (friends have a car), but i don't compare it to the price of a car. This is an ivy bridge with a full HD screen, dedicated graphics, SSD option. Chances are it will be faster than the current MBP. It is not for 'casual users'.
ajross 14y ago
Of course no single laptop model is going to outsell the iPad, that's not how the PC market works. Laptops as a whole outsell iPads by a staggering proportion, and that's not likely to change any time soon. Almost always (certainly more than 50% of cases) the iPad is a secondary computer. It's purchased by people who already have ready access to a laptop or desktop. I'm certainly looking at this device (and others) for my next laptop. Guessing from your product allegiance, you might be happier with a Macbook Air, which is also a similar device (and much more expensive, at that).
JoelSutherland 14y ago
There is no need to speculate, Anandtech has already tested the battery performance of of Ivy Bridge i7s: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridge-launch-and-ultrabook-review/6 http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridg... It seems safe to assume they put a 36 watt hour battery in there (iPad3 is 42.5) since the transformer book is bigger in all dimensions and as you point out has hardware that needs a big battery. If the graphics are switchable (also reasonable) that should yeild 4+ hours for video and nearly 6 hours for web browsing with Flash. I don't see why it shouldn't have decent battery as a tablet and possibly great battery life when docked as a laptop. There are also i3 and i5 models available. Apple isn't doing this because they are supply bound on a product that has 40% margins.

dagw 14y ago

So, $500 iPad3 or $800 for Windows transformer tablet? Full keyboard, proper general purpose OS, running a fairly powerful CPU and GPU and offering all your standard set of I/O ports. This is not an iPad competitor, but a Macbook Air competitor, that can also be used as a tablet in a pinch.

rbanffy 14y ago
> proper general purpose OS That's debatable ;-) but I concede your point that Windows is more "general purpose" than iOS. > Macbook Air competitor Won't run OSX. It's not a competitor unless you plan running Windows 8 on your Macbook which is not very smart. And iPads can use Apple's wireless keyboards, so, for US$ 50 more you get a really good keyboard you can use with your desktop computer too.
- ot 14y ago
  How debatable? On Intel you get the desktop and backward-compatibility with old windows applications. What is your definition of general-purpose?
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    I adopt the "works for me" definition which, in the end, is the one I should use to select hardware for my use. Of course, you should probably not use the "works for rbanffy" definition for your own hardware acquisitions. Most of my apps are designed to run on Linux. My IDE is Emacs and my system management tool is a shell. With that in mind, anything that's not Unix-like negatively impacts productivity. I have used Cygwin on Windows but, while it goes great lengths to make Windows a comfortable environment, in the end it's just not worth the effort if you can just run the real thing on your machine. Windows also takes ages to set up with software downloaded from just about everywhere. With Linux, I issue an "apt-get install" and sit back while the environment gets assembled. On a Mac, I have to install the xcode command-line tooling, ports and everything from that point on is completely automated. On Windows I don't even want to think the steps I'd need to take and the buttons I'd need to click before being able to just work.
    - ot 14y ago
      Then it is your definition that is debatable (and self-centric). By the same reasoning Linux is not general-purpose because it does not run Visual Studio. OSX, Linux and Windows are equally general-purpose by all reasonable definitions.
      - rbanffy 14y ago
        The only useful definition is a self-centric one because you'll use what you buy. I have no use for a machine that runs Visual Studio or Office, therefore, my criteria for selecting a computer will be very different from someone who needs to run both programs. For someone who wants to run games, a Windows PC with an ATI graphics card would be a good choice. For someone who wants to run Emacs and develop web applications, it's simply not the best one.
- dagw 14y ago
  Won't run OSX No, but it will run most of the apps that I run on OS X, or apps of equivalent functionality, so who cares. I bought my MBA because it offered the best hardware for my needs at the given price point, not because I'm a slave to OS X. iPads can use Apple's wireless keyboards Sure I can get a keyboard for the iPad, but I still can't (easily) run most of the apps I need to get work done. And as an aside, I'd be fascinated to hear your argument as to how Windows is less general purpose than OS X
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    > will run most of the apps that I run on OS X Good for you. > I'd be fascinated to hear your argument as to how Windows is less general purpose than OS X For me, at least, it's a pain to develop software on Windows. If I did Java development, it'd be relatively painless, but having to rely on Cygwin to have an environment that approximates the servers that will actually run my code is very suboptimal. Don't think I'm a slave to OSX - I'm not, but I'd have a very hard time being productive in an environment that's completely alien to the software I write. Actually, for work, I prefer Linux, but a Mac is fine. And I can play with Xcode and iOS development on it.
- dpark 14y ago
  > Won't run OSX. It's not a competitor unless you plan running Windows 8 on your Macbook which is not very smart. Am I to understand that you think Apple laptops and Windows laptops are not in competition with each other? Seriously?
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    It depends on what you intend to run. If you want to run either Visual Studio or Xcode, they are completely different machines. Both machines will run Office and a browser if that's your thing.
    - dpark 14y ago
      If you define the market narrowly enough, you could argue that the Honda Civic is not in competition with the Toyota Corolla, but you're just creating a self-serving definition at that point. The vast majority of consumers will never install or run either Visual Studio or Xcode. To most consumers, Windows laptops are in direct competition with Apple laptops, because they are both general purpose computing devices that will do what the consumer needs.
      - rbanffy 14y ago
        Does the Honda Civic compete with a Maybach? For most users, Windows laptops, Apple laptops, Chromebooks and iPads are in direct competition. All four do Facebook just fine.
        dpark 14y ago
        > Does the Honda Civic compete with a Maybach? Are you saying that Windows is the Civic while Apple is the Maybach (or vice versa)? This doesn't make a lot of sense, because Apple laptop vs Windows laptop is a comparison of similar products. Civic vs Maybach is a comparison between a low-end consumer product and an extreme luxury item. Exactly 63 Maybachs were sold in the US during all of 2010. So no, I don't think Honda would consider Maybach to be in competition with the Civic, and I assume Maybach is probably not especially concerned with the Civic, either. > For most users, Windows laptops, Apple laptops, Chromebooks and iPads are in direct competition. All four do Facebook just fine. Is this supposed be an argument in favor of your claim that Apple laptops and Windows laptops are not in competition? Because it seems like you're arguing with yourself at this point.
- cooldeal 14y ago
  >It's not a competitor unless you plan running Windows 8 on your Macbook which is not very smart. Agreed, the Macbook lacks touch hardware. If you're buying hardware for Windows 8, it doesn't make sense to buy one without touch support.
mtgx 14y ago
There's no way this will be $800. More like $1200+.

polshaw 14y ago

>$500 iPad3 or $800 for Windows transformer tablet? An ipad does not replace a laptop, the devices aren't equivalent.

hollerith 14y ago
For some prospective users it is an acceptable replacement (since most casual users have friends with a "real" computer that they can turn to occasionally) and for some purchasers it is not.
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  Sure, Asus just announced another Windows device to fill that need. http://blogs.nvidia.com/2012/06/asus-nvidia-unveil-worlds-first-windows-rt-consumer-device/ http://blogs.nvidia.com/2012/06/asus-nvidia-unveil-worlds-fi...
- polshaw 14y ago
  And for some people a bike is acceptable (friends have a car), but i don't compare it to the price of a car. This is an ivy bridge with a full HD screen, dedicated graphics, SSD option. Chances are it will be faster than the current MBP. It is not for 'casual users'.

ajross 14y ago

Of course no single laptop model is going to outsell the iPad, that's not how the PC market works. Laptops as a whole outsell iPads by a staggering proportion, and that's not likely to change any time soon. Almost always (certainly more than 50% of cases) the iPad is a secondary computer. It's purchased by people who already have ready access to a laptop or desktop. I'm certainly looking at this device (and others) for my next laptop. Guessing from your product allegiance, you might be happier with a Macbook Air, which is also a similar device (and much more expensive, at that).

JoelSutherland 14y ago

There is no need to speculate, Anandtech has already tested the battery performance of of Ivy Bridge i7s: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridge-launch-and-ultrabook-review/6 http://www.anandtech.com/show/5872/intel-dual-core-ivy-bridg... It seems safe to assume they put a 36 watt hour battery in there (iPad3 is 42.5) since the transformer book is bigger in all dimensions and as you point out has hardware that needs a big battery. If the graphics are switchable (also reasonable) that should yeild 4+ hours for video and nearly 6 hours for web browsing with Flash. I don't see why it shouldn't have decent battery as a tablet and possibly great battery life when docked as a laptop. There are also i3 and i5 models available. Apple isn't doing this because they are supply bound on a product that has 40% margins.