4 ms·

The problem is that software development is less like hiring an airline pilot or a structural engineer, and more like hiring an artist. Try making up a "standa

by ff317 2y ago

The problem is that software development is less like hiring an airline pilot or a structural engineer, and more like hiring an artist. Try making up a "standard exam" that will tell you whether an artist will produce several great unique works for you in the future, so you know which one to hire...

itronitron 2y ago
Will they be required to use Scrum and forced to use Jira?
drewcoo 2y ago
Yet frankly, what most of us do is more like plumbing than art. In that we're just fitting systems together and in that it's actual skilled labor and in that we're seen by everyone else as the ones willing to do the shitty work. Management puts up with us and they pay us because even though they think they can do our work, they wouldn't want to. Plumbers are licensed and unionized, two possible solutions to the problems posed in this thread.
8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
That's an interesting point, but then one wonders that if software eng are ultimately artists, why are we not having them work on their portfolios like the other art disciplines? Is that the fundamental problem?
- gwbas1c 2y ago
  > one wonders that if software eng are ultimately artists I find treating software engineering like art is a very dangerous approach and bound for failure. A lot of software engineering comes down to being comfortable with code and how the computer works. That has little to nothing to do with art.
  - recursive 2y ago
    A lot of painting still life comes down being comfortable with brushes and knowing how paint works. A lot of music comes down to know scales and chords work. Most art still requires fundamental mechanics.
- recursive 2y ago
  > why are we not having them work on their portfolios? Who is having whom? Having a portfolio of work is a well understood benefit, and a lot of candidates have been doing it for some time.
  - 8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
    I think it's frowned upon in many circles because most of the work you do for a living cannot be released to the public, so there's an expectation that you will be cranking out work for free on the side just to build a portfolio, which is not inclusive for say.. a minority mother of three, who doesn't have the time, and it only favors young affluent white and Asian males with no dependents.

by ff317 2y ago

itronitron 2y ago

Will they be required to use Scrum and forced to use Jira?

drewcoo 2y ago

Yet frankly, what most of us do is more like plumbing than art. In that we're just fitting systems together and in that it's actual skilled labor and in that we're seen by everyone else as the ones willing to do the shitty work. Management puts up with us and they pay us because even though they think they can do our work, they wouldn't want to. Plumbers are licensed and unionized, two possible solutions to the problems posed in this thread.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago

That's an interesting point, but then one wonders that if software eng are ultimately artists, why are we not having them work on their portfolios like the other art disciplines? Is that the fundamental problem?

gwbas1c 2y ago
> one wonders that if software eng are ultimately artists I find treating software engineering like art is a very dangerous approach and bound for failure. A lot of software engineering comes down to being comfortable with code and how the computer works. That has little to nothing to do with art.
- recursive 2y ago
  A lot of painting still life comes down being comfortable with brushes and knowing how paint works. A lot of music comes down to know scales and chords work. Most art still requires fundamental mechanics.
recursive 2y ago
> why are we not having them work on their portfolios? Who is having whom? Having a portfolio of work is a well understood benefit, and a lot of candidates have been doing it for some time.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y ago
  I think it's frowned upon in many circles because most of the work you do for a living cannot be released to the public, so there's an expectation that you will be cranking out work for free on the side just to build a portfolio, which is not inclusive for say.. a minority mother of three, who doesn't have the time, and it only favors young affluent white and Asian males with no dependents.