4 ms·

> Right now, when people on iOS and Android message each other, the service falls back to SMS — photos and videos are sent at a lower quality, messages are shor

by atonse 2y ago

> Right now, when people on iOS and Android message each other, the service falls back to SMS — photos and videos are sent at a lower quality, messages are shortened, and importantly, conversations are not end-to-end encrypted like they are in iMessage. They will still not be end-to-end encrypted in RCS. They will just be encrypted in transit, but your carrier (or whoever is running whatever server in an RCS architecture) can read all your messages. There is talk that Google's got some kind of extension that adds E2EE to RCS but others will be well informed on it and can add to my message. I'm blissfully happy with iMessage. For the non-Apple people, we've been using WhatsApp for nearly a decade. But what does this do for OTP messages, etc? I'll have to check if Twilio automatically uses RCS if you send a message to a supported number. I do like the idea of all messages being encrypted in transit at least (SMS is not).

acdha 2y ago
> There is talk that Google's got some kind of extension that adds E2EE to RCS but others will be well informed on it and can add to my message. It’s not just talk, but it’s locked down. Google’s huge PR campaign backing RCS has been very impressive at getting people to conflate the two but basically they have an RCS extension implementing the Signal protocol which theoretically could be implemented by anyone but it depends on Google’s key exchange servers which are restricted to their own proprietary app – even third-party Android developers are blocked. It’s a PR masterwork, really. They’re honest on the technical white paper: > E2EE is implemented in the Messages client, so both clients in a conversation must use Messages, otherwise the conversation becomes unencrypted RCS. In rare situations where the conversation starts as E2EE, then one of the clients migrates to a different RCS client or an older Messages client that does not support E2EE, Messages might be unable to detect the change immediately. If the Messages user sends a new message, it’s still E2EE, however the recipient client may render the encrypted base64 payload directly as message content. https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf Meanwhile, the far more widely read marketing pages they actually advertise say things like this: > SMS and MMS don’t support end-to-end encryption, which means your messages are not as secure. https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ https://www.android.com/get-the-message/
- atonse 2y ago
  I simply can’t understand why Google is incapable of building a good quality alternative to iMessage over the past 15 years. FB and WhatsApp have done it. Signal has done it, slowly but surely.
  - Scaevolus 2y ago
    It's unfair to later teams of engineers to deny them promotion-fodder for launching a new messaging app.
  - acdha 2y ago
    They even had one of the most popular messaging apps 15 years ago - I remember when iMessage launched and people were predicting it’ll fail because GTalk was so popular. The mismanagement is just epic - so many botches trying to build something new (or make Google+ happen) because apparently nobody gets promoted for good stewardship of a product they didn’t start.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - kevincox 2y ago
    They've had a few good messaging apps that were then left to rot and slowly break before being killed. GTalk was pretty solid and Hangouts was amazing at launch. But they all got worse over time instead of better.
  - jhasse 2y ago
    What's wrong with Google Messages?
    - tatersolid 2y ago
      Nobody uses it.
  - giancarlostoro 2y ago
bjoli 2y ago
They already added e2ee. If I long-press a message right now and press "show more information" it says "Message with RCS with end-to-end encryption". Their own documentation claims as much: https://support.google.com/messages/answer/10252671?hl=en https://support.google.com/messages/answer/10252671?hl=en But it is the google-only RCS. If your provider have their own RCS implementation, tough luck.
- jvolkman 2y ago
  The end-to-end encryption is a client feature. It will work with any RCS provider that implements Universal Profile, as long as both clients are using Google Messages.

by atonse 2y ago

acdha 2y ago

> There is talk that Google's got some kind of extension that adds E2EE to RCS but others will be well informed on it and can add to my message. It’s not just talk, but it’s locked down. Google’s huge PR campaign backing RCS has been very impressive at getting people to conflate the two but basically they have an RCS extension implementing the Signal protocol which theoretically could be implemented by anyone but it depends on Google’s key exchange servers which are restricted to their own proprietary app – even third-party Android developers are blocked. It’s a PR masterwork, really. They’re honest on the technical white paper: > E2EE is implemented in the Messages client, so both clients in a conversation must use Messages, otherwise the conversation becomes unencrypted RCS. In rare situations where the conversation starts as E2EE, then one of the clients migrates to a different RCS client or an older Messages client that does not support E2EE, Messages might be unable to detect the change immediately. If the Messages user sends a new message, it’s still E2EE, however the recipient client may render the encrypted base64 payload directly as message content. https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf Meanwhile, the far more widely read marketing pages they actually advertise say things like this: > SMS and MMS don’t support end-to-end encryption, which means your messages are not as secure. https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ https://www.android.com/get-the-message/

atonse 2y ago
I simply can’t understand why Google is incapable of building a good quality alternative to iMessage over the past 15 years. FB and WhatsApp have done it. Signal has done it, slowly but surely.
- Scaevolus 2y ago
  It's unfair to later teams of engineers to deny them promotion-fodder for launching a new messaging app.
- acdha 2y ago
  They even had one of the most popular messaging apps 15 years ago - I remember when iMessage launched and people were predicting it’ll fail because GTalk was so popular. The mismanagement is just epic - so many botches trying to build something new (or make Google+ happen) because apparently nobody gets promoted for good stewardship of a product they didn’t start.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- kevincox 2y ago
  They've had a few good messaging apps that were then left to rot and slowly break before being killed. GTalk was pretty solid and Hangouts was amazing at launch. But they all got worse over time instead of better.
- jhasse 2y ago
  What's wrong with Google Messages?
  - tatersolid 2y ago
    Nobody uses it.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago

bjoli 2y ago

They already added e2ee. If I long-press a message right now and press "show more information" it says "Message with RCS with end-to-end encryption". Their own documentation claims as much: https://support.google.com/messages/answer/10252671?hl=en https://support.google.com/messages/answer/10252671?hl=en But it is the google-only RCS. If your provider have their own RCS implementation, tough luck.

jvolkman 2y ago
The end-to-end encryption is a client feature. It will work with any RCS provider that implements Universal Profile, as long as both clients are using Google Messages.