Yeah that was my point. Programmers are no longer viewed as "professionals". I've never experienced it, but my understanding is that this used to be the case, m

Yeah that was my point. Programmers are no longer viewed as "professionals". I've never experienced it, but my understanding is that this used to be the case, mostly before the 2000 crash. That's when we wore ties, had offices with doors, were allowed to talk to customers and upper management, weren't herded around by "scrum masters", etc. Seems like another world to me, but maybe there is some company somewhere that hasn't gotten the memo yet and still runs that way.