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Regarding OpenAI, has Apple in its history ever relied so heavily on a 3rd party for software features? (TSMC for hardware, but it seems very un-Apple to be so

Regarding OpenAI, has Apple in its history ever relied so heavily on a 3rd party for software features? (TSMC for hardware, but it seems very un-Apple to be so dependent upon someone else for software capabilities like OpenAI)

tavavex 2y ago
OpenAI seems like the last-chance fallback - in which case, they've already done the exact same thing with Siri trying to Google search your request if it couldn't do anything with it.
whywhywhywhy 2y ago
OG iPhone had Google as Maps provider and YouTube both within Apple shells and the branding downplayed in Maps case That’s the only case I can think of where it’s an external tech you’re making requests to, usually it’s things like Rosetta made out of Apple IIRC but integrated internally
- latexr 2y ago
  > Rosetta is made out of Apple IIRC but integrated internally Don’t think that’s right. I think Rosetta was always made inside Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software) Perhaps mixing it up because of Rosetta Stone? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone_(software)
  - kevbin 2y ago
    > Transitive is providing the engine used in Apple's Rosetta software, which translates software for its current machines using PowerPC processors so it can run on forthcoming Intel-based Macintoshes. "We've had a long-term relationship with them," Transitive Chief Executive Bob Wiederhold said Tuesday. https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/the-brains-behind-apples-rosetta-transitive/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/the-brains-b...
    - latexr 2y ago
      Thank you for the correction. For those wanting to know more, the technology was called QuickTransit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit Rosetta 2 may have been developed in-house, though. That bit isn’t yet clear.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
martimarkov 2y ago
They did it with Google Maps and YouTube. They also do this with the search engine used in Safari. I believe they will just provide an interface in the future to plugin as a Backend AI provider to trusted parties (like the search engine) but will slowly build their own ChatGPT for more and more stuff.
paradite 2y ago
Does Microsoft Office in early days of Mac OS count? I guess not.
- TMWNN 2y ago
  I don't see why it would not count. Same for Adobe products.
- philwelch 2y ago
  Microsoft Office was released five years after the Macintosh; what are you talking about?
  - wtallis 2y ago
    The applications that were later bundled into Office were on the Mac pretty early: 1985 for Word and Excel, and the first PowerPoint in 1987 was Mac-only.
    - philwelch 2y ago
      Fair, though the very first Macs came with MacWrite preinstalled.
gfosco 2y ago
The OpenAI reference came at the end, and it appears it's mostly a fallback... an option, that users must explicitly allow every time. Hardly a dependency. Most of the time, it will be on-device or apple-hosted in "private compute cloud", not connected to OpenAI at all.
OkGoDoIt 2y ago
Google Maps in the early days of iOS? Anyway it seems like a small subset of Siri queries utilize ChatGPT, the vast majority of functionality is performed either locally or with Apple's cloud apparently. They were also pretty explicit about planning to support other backend AI providers in the future.
LogHouse 2y ago
I wondered the same, but frankly, what other options are there?
- hackerlight 2y ago
  It's going to be easy to substitute in their own LLM behind the API in the future. None of the branding or platform is controlled by OpenAI.
kristjansson 2y ago
Seems like the OpenAI integration is a nice-to-have, but mostly separate from Super-Siri?
pat2man 2y ago
Google Maps, YouTube, on the original iPhone?
- alberth 2y ago
  But those were standalone apps. This AI capability is integrated throughout the entire OS and Apps. It's now part of the "fabric" of iOS.
  - Tagbert 2y ago
    Only in response to some classes of requests. They didn’t go into detail about when but they said that the local Siri LLM would evaluate the request and decide if it could be services locally, in their private cloud AI, or would need to use OpenAI. Then it would pop up a requesting asking if you want to send the request to OpenAI. It doesn’t look like that would a particularly common occurrence. Seems like it would be needed for “answerbot” type of requests where live web data is being requested.
  - mholm 2y ago
    The majority of this is local AI with nothing to do with openAI. Only particularly complex requests go to them
latexr 2y ago
That might be smarter than we initially give it credit. By leaving the “safer” (read: harder to get wrong) things to their own models and then the more “creative” stuff to an explicit external model, they can shift blame: “Hey, we didn’t made up that information, we explicitly said that was ChatGPT”. I don’t think they’ll say it outright like that. Because they won’t have to.
Almondsetat 2y ago
iCloud uses Google Cloud
dialup_sounds 2y ago
Maybe I missed something but it doesn't sound like OpenAI is powering any of this except the optional integrations.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
As with Google Maps, my guess is that they will only rely on it long enough to get their own LLM offer up to parity, at which point it might still be there as an option but there will be very little need for users to activate it. Also, it seems that most of Siri's improved features will still work without it (though perhaps less well in same cases) -- and therefore Apple is not fully dependent on it.

tavavex 2y ago

OpenAI seems like the last-chance fallback - in which case, they've already done the exact same thing with Siri trying to Google search your request if it couldn't do anything with it.

whywhywhywhy 2y ago

OG iPhone had Google as Maps provider and YouTube both within Apple shells and the branding downplayed in Maps case That’s the only case I can think of where it’s an external tech you’re making requests to, usually it’s things like Rosetta made out of Apple IIRC but integrated internally

latexr 2y ago
> Rosetta is made out of Apple IIRC but integrated internally Don’t think that’s right. I think Rosetta was always made inside Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software) Perhaps mixing it up because of Rosetta Stone? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone_(software)
- kevbin 2y ago
  > Transitive is providing the engine used in Apple's Rosetta software, which translates software for its current machines using PowerPC processors so it can run on forthcoming Intel-based Macintoshes. "We've had a long-term relationship with them," Transitive Chief Executive Bob Wiederhold said Tuesday. https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/the-brains-behind-apples-rosetta-transitive/ https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/the-brains-b...
  - latexr 2y ago
    Thank you for the correction. For those wanting to know more, the technology was called QuickTransit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit Rosetta 2 may have been developed in-house, though. That bit isn’t yet clear.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

martimarkov 2y ago

They did it with Google Maps and YouTube. They also do this with the search engine used in Safari. I believe they will just provide an interface in the future to plugin as a Backend AI provider to trusted parties (like the search engine) but will slowly build their own ChatGPT for more and more stuff.

paradite 2y ago

Does Microsoft Office in early days of Mac OS count? I guess not.

TMWNN 2y ago
I don't see why it would not count. Same for Adobe products.
philwelch 2y ago
Microsoft Office was released five years after the Macintosh; what are you talking about?
- wtallis 2y ago
  The applications that were later bundled into Office were on the Mac pretty early: 1985 for Word and Excel, and the first PowerPoint in 1987 was Mac-only.
  - philwelch 2y ago
    Fair, though the very first Macs came with MacWrite preinstalled.

gfosco 2y ago

The OpenAI reference came at the end, and it appears it's mostly a fallback... an option, that users must explicitly allow every time. Hardly a dependency. Most of the time, it will be on-device or apple-hosted in "private compute cloud", not connected to OpenAI at all.

OkGoDoIt 2y ago

Google Maps in the early days of iOS? Anyway it seems like a small subset of Siri queries utilize ChatGPT, the vast majority of functionality is performed either locally or with Apple's cloud apparently. They were also pretty explicit about planning to support other backend AI providers in the future.

LogHouse 2y ago

I wondered the same, but frankly, what other options are there?

hackerlight 2y ago
It's going to be easy to substitute in their own LLM behind the API in the future. None of the branding or platform is controlled by OpenAI.

kristjansson 2y ago

Seems like the OpenAI integration is a nice-to-have, but mostly separate from Super-Siri?

pat2man 2y ago

Google Maps, YouTube, on the original iPhone?

alberth 2y ago
But those were standalone apps. This AI capability is integrated throughout the entire OS and Apps. It's now part of the "fabric" of iOS.
- Tagbert 2y ago
  Only in response to some classes of requests. They didn’t go into detail about when but they said that the local Siri LLM would evaluate the request and decide if it could be services locally, in their private cloud AI, or would need to use OpenAI. Then it would pop up a requesting asking if you want to send the request to OpenAI. It doesn’t look like that would a particularly common occurrence. Seems like it would be needed for “answerbot” type of requests where live web data is being requested.
- mholm 2y ago
  The majority of this is local AI with nothing to do with openAI. Only particularly complex requests go to them

latexr 2y ago

That might be smarter than we initially give it credit. By leaving the “safer” (read: harder to get wrong) things to their own models and then the more “creative” stuff to an explicit external model, they can shift blame: “Hey, we didn’t made up that information, we explicitly said that was ChatGPT”. I don’t think they’ll say it outright like that. Because they won’t have to.

Almondsetat 2y ago

iCloud uses Google Cloud

dialup_sounds 2y ago

Maybe I missed something but it doesn't sound like OpenAI is powering any of this except the optional integrations.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

As with Google Maps, my guess is that they will only rely on it long enough to get their own LLM offer up to parity, at which point it might still be there as an option but there will be very little need for users to activate it. Also, it seems that most of Siri's improved features will still work without it (though perhaps less well in same cases) -- and therefore Apple is not fully dependent on it.