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Apple is finally bringing RCS messaging to the iPhone

127 points by samspenc 2y ago

goatmeal 2y ago
they still do white text on a lime green background despite every accessibility guidance to the contrary. if I used white text on a lime green background at my job I would be reprimanded. this is malicious compliance.
- mdhb 2y ago
  Just like how they let you install “web apps” by hiding it deep within a “share” menu. Can’t tell me that’s done in good faith either.
  - Gigachad 2y ago
    It’s not really a share menu, it’s just a menu where basically all safari functionality is.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      Yeah it’s also where bookmark, find, print, sharing, and a ton of other stuff are. It’s not like it’s some menu nobody ever looks at, it’s an entirely normal place for something like that to be based on what else they’ve put there.
  - Angostura 2y ago
    That's where add to homescreen has been forever
- lxgr 2y ago
  Compliance with what? No regulatory body or law has forced Apple to do this (yet).
  - happymellon 2y ago
    You don't seem to have a great level of awareness of the world. There are plenty of regulatory bodies, especially the EU, who have forced Apple to do things it doesn't want to. They are making noise about interoperability of communications and rather than have the US (we don't have RCS over here, so it's meaningless for us) make rules that forces their hand in a manner that may not be how Apple want to do things, they get out ahead to reduce the power of the argument. The fact that it's a shitty implementation is the feature.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    Common sense? If Apple refuses to make obvious accessibility changes to drive customers to some alternative first-party product, that's probably going to get brought up during antitrust hearings.
    - SllX 2y ago
      iPhones are packed to the gills with accessibility features including for contrast, text size, bolding text, filters for the color blind, text to speech and color inversion.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        Which makes the omission of high-contrast message bubbles even more puzzling. Cui bono?
        SllX 2y ago
        That is in fact one of the accessibility settings. Increases contrast front the blue bubbles too, and color contrast between foreground and background colors system wide.
        talldayo 2y ago
        Good, the defaults are so insidiously-designed that you'd be forgiven for assuming it was naturally user-hostile.
- doctoboggan 2y ago
  Before iMessage, they used the green bubbles for SMS. So unless Apple was planning a long con, they believed the green bubbles were fine for their customers for years, and switched to a new color (blue) when iMessage came about.
  - hnrodey 2y ago
    Back in my day..... all message bubbles were green!
  - YetAnotherNick 2y ago
    They used to do black text on green[1], which was fine, but they switched to white text on green/blue. [1]: https://mobiforge.com/files/iphone-sms-1.jpg https://mobiforge.com/files/iphone-sms-1.jpg
    - tr3ntg 2y ago
      For some reason reading this, I didn't believe you, and imagined "black text on green bg" to be very ugly, but you're totally right. There's the classic look we remember. Hmm.
  - wrs 2y ago
    What I find ironic with all this talk of lower-class green bubbles is that the Messages app icon is still…green!
- kurthr 2y ago
  Would you not be reprimanded for white text on a cyan background? That is the alternative on iMessage. The bubble is not blue. Edit: to be fair the text is also not "white" The approximate (sRGB) color codes are: "green" #39ff5a (57,255,90) "white" #fdfdfd (253,253,253) "grey" #d8d8d8 (216,216,216) "blue grey" #aeb9cc (174,185,204) "blue" #218aff (33,138,255) All the contrasts are terrible, but clearly a marketing decision. https://coolors.co/contrast-checker/fdfdfd-218aff https://coolors.co/contrast-checker/fdfdfd-218aff
  - BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
    WebAIM Contrast Checker says the standard green/white and blue/white combos both fail by default, so you're sort of right, but, details... > "green" #39ff5a (57,255,90) ... This list of colors is both inaccurate and very inaccurate. In fact, there is not one single green (or blue) color in iMessage, and anyone who says there is is mistaken. 1. The bubble colors show in a gradient from the bottom of the screen (newer messages have more contrast) to the top of the screen (older messages have less contrast). The standard green at the bottom for the newest message is measured with the macOS built-in digital color meter from a screenshot taken on my iPhone is [51,199,89]. The standard green at the top is [56,228,100]. 2. The OP is just being foolish on the internet. Enabling the increased contrast accessibility mode in iOS settings turns the green at the bottom into a dark forest which very easily passes for anyone who actually needs it and isn't just talking out of their ass on the internet to bash iPhones without having used one. > to be fair the text is also not "white" macOS digital color meter says the text is white [255,255,255].
    - kurthr 2y ago
      Thanks, I agree about the accessibility setting. I know the iPhone at least doesn't actually use sRGB so the numbers are bound to be a bit off, but I'm surprised it's that far off. Also, I'd note for modern iOS even just in dark mode the writer is in "black/white", while it's your own messages that are "blue" or "green" depending on whether its RCS so readability is less of an issue.
- vundercind 2y ago
  For your own messages that you wrote and sent, not anyone else’s, and the contrast lower down on the screen is fine, it’s only at the top of the screen when it’s doing the fade-to-indicate-you-can-scroll-for-more thing that it runs afoul of contrast minimums.
  - pseudalopex 2y ago
    > the contrast lower down on the screen is fine Apple say no.[1] [1] https://medium.com/@krvoller/how-iphone-violates-apples-accessibility-guidelines-6785172eb343 https://medium.com/@krvoller/how-iphone-violates-apples-acce...
    - vundercind 2y ago
      1) The examples in those screenshots are way lower contrast than my actual messaging app on the real device. Maybe it wasn’t that bad when they did the calculations, but it’s not a great sign. 2) The author believes Android users’ messages show up green, so I wonder if they’ve ever even used an iPhone. 3) The messages are in fact not hard to read and you can crank up contrast system-wide if that or anything else gives trouble (and if these do, you’ll need improved contrast to browse the web, anyway).
      - pseudalopex 2y ago
        The examples looked very close to a real device to me. What is the contrast ratio on your device? The author identified correctly the message colors. "When you send a text to someone, your message floats to the conversation area in a blue or electric green message bubble (depending on whether you’re texting with another iPhone/iPad/Mac user or some other device)." Many iPhone users make the error you believed the author made. And the criticism would be valid if they never used an iPhone. Please do not use logical fallacies. Calling the green bubbles not hard to read is your opinion. Opposed by other opinions and Apple's guidelines. Not fact. The system high contrast mode makes some other apps less accessible. It makes weather icons all white for example. Your claim about web browsing was false.
- BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
  iOS supports increasing color contrast for anyone who wants it, and whining about iMessage bubble colors while ignoring that fact is doing the world a huge disservice.
arresin 2y ago
The messages will still be green apparently.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  Even if Apple cracks and ports iMessage to Android, I would still expect them to use a green bubble. It's a social signal to shame those in the outgroup
  - recursive 2y ago
    I might be the only one, but I think I would feel slightly uncomfortable having the blue bubble. (that's the apple one, right?) Like maybe not enough to stop me from getting an iphone if I wanted one otherwise. But it's such a visible signifier of being in an in-group. It somehow feels like a tacit approval of social shame strategy. Like even if I had an iphone, I feel like I would want to opt-out of the good color in solidarity with the have-nots or something. I have no interest in iphones, and also don't really participate in any group texts, so it's double academic for me though.
    - yieldcrv 2y ago
      > But it's such a visible signifier of being in an in-group. It also works really well and is a lot of fun for interacting. Many people aren't just using "text", its quite rich forms of interacting. Enough people have grown up with that now to not care about the more rudimentary way form of communication you associate with "texting". It also signifies that there are even MORE ways you can communicate, with the integrated location sharing when desired, video chat, video voicemails, and more. (I'm sure android users have the possibility of all these things, but not as deeply integrated or without any other app.) > and also don't really participate in any group texts shocked /s
      - drcongo 2y ago
        Google Messages actually lets you use green bubbles too.
throw20240511 2y ago
RCS is out-of-the box an unencrypted messaging protocol. The EU forcing Apple to adopt a cleartext protocol like RCS is deeply suspicious. Interoperability will force disclosure of message contents to the state and carrier. (unless your phone vendor has implemented encryption in their implementation. Ie: optimistic encryption aka can’t trust if it is truly working) Use encrypted messaging protocols — iMessage, signal, WhatsApp… Tell the government and the carriers to pound sand and <encrypted>……
- distances 2y ago
  > The EU forcing Apple to adopt a cleartext protocol like RCS is deeply suspicious. Interoperability will force disclosure of message contents to the state and carrier. I don't think it's suspicious. Almost nobody uses SMS in Europe anyway so this change is almost meaningless over here. It's just WhatsApp and then a little bit of Telegram, Signal etc on top. I'm honestly not sure why anyone drives this (in Europe). I used to work for a mobile operator and RCS was a big thing around 2006-2009 in our R&D department. Then I changed to others jobs and almost didn't believe my eyes when it resurfaced with Google over a decade later. I was absolutely sure it was a dead horse already in 2009.
- lxgr 2y ago
  The EU is doing no such thing. iMessage was explicitly determined to be out of scope of the DMA [1], simply because there isn't a meaninful user base in Europe (as is the case in almost the entire world except for the US). [1] https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/23990679/apple-imessage-european-union-digital-markets-act-core-platform-service https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/23990679/apple-imessage-e...
- happymellon 2y ago
  Why would you suggest a conspiracy theory like that? I'm not even sure what RCS is, other than a replacement text service that American phone companies offer. I am not aware that it's something that I could use over here.
  - sib 2y ago
kalupa 2y ago
ugh, RCS is the worst. I'm all for interoperability but can we at least use something that isn't so awful?
- lxgr 2y ago
  I think it's a shame too, but I blame Google at least as much as Apple for pushing this ridiculous standard in the first place. As if there was any need to increase the lock-in to phone numbers and mobile carriers for communication and identification any more...
thedougd 2y ago
I hope and expect it to work over Wi-Fi without a cellular signal.
- bjoli 2y ago
  It does on my android phone, so it doesn'ct seem to be a limitation of the protocol.
- lxgr 2y ago
  It will. Unlike e.g. MMS or VoLTE, RCS (at least as recently implemented on Android) has never used special APNs or other network-only infrastructure. Even when you have signal and mobile data, it'll take the same route as iMessage or WhatsApp, i.e. your regular "Internet" APN.
Elfener 2y ago
Confused european here: So SMS goes over the phone network, online chat programs (like Discord) go over their own servers obviously, but what does RCS and iMessage go through? Google's and Apple's servers on the internet? The phone system, seeing they're SMS-based? Also, if I'm in the SMS messaging app, I expect my messages to be SMS, not internet-based?
- e_y_ 2y ago
  Cell phone carriers can set up their own RCS servers. All the major US carriers (AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile US) outsourced their RCS to Google's Jibe platform, though. Messaging apps haven't been pure SMS for a long time. If you've sent photos/images, it's using MMS, which basically uploads the picture to a HTTP server hosted by your carrier and sends the URL in a SMS message that the receiving app knows to automatically download and display the image, provided you have a data connection. iMessage is proprietary to Apple, so of course it goes through Apple's servers. When you set up your iPhone, it registers your phone number with Apple's iMessage server so that whenever someone tries to send a message to your number, it sends it to the iMessage cloud instead of SMS. This can actually cause problems when you switch from an iPhone to Android because other Apple users trying to send you text messages might still get routed to iMessage instead of SMS, and there's no iMessage available for Android. You may have to use a website that Apple provides to manually deregister the phone number from iMessage in that case. I'm not all that familiar with how RCS works but presumably there's a similar registration process so that other phones know that your phone is RCS capable, except decentralized since it's not controlled by a single company.
  - brokenmachine 2y ago
    >This can actually cause problems when you switch from an iPhone to Android because other Apple users trying to send you text messages might still get routed to iMessage instead of SMS, and there's no iMessage available for Android. You may have to use a website that Apple provides to manually deregister the phone number from iMessage in that case. Wow, Apple really manages to come up with every possible way to lock-in and hamstring competitors.
jupp0r 2y ago
How can this article not mention "encryption" even once when that's the major point of contention?
- gouggoug 2y ago
  It does > Right now, when people on iOS and Android message each other, the service falls back to SMS — photos and videos are sent at a lower quality, messages are shortened, and importantly, conversations are not end-to-end encrypted like they are in iMessage.
  - jupp0r 2y ago
    This pertains to SMS, not RCS. We've already known for three decades that SMS are not end to end encrypted.
- acdha 2y ago
  Because RCS doesn’t have end to end encryption. Google has a proprietary service which is restricted to their own client, but no other RCS client can use it.
garciansmith 2y ago
I hope the wider adoption of RCS will mean Google opening it up to other messaging clients on Android. If only because it'd be nice to fall back to something, anything, a bit better than SMS (most of my regular contacts use Signal these days). I just don't want to be locked into Google's client.
- lxgr 2y ago
  I hope RCS will never be widely adopted. It's bad technology, and despite what Google says, it's not carrier-based: Google runs almost the entire show (since carriers can't be bothered to actually run RCS servers) and gets effectively all messages sent over it in plaintext, unless you happen to use Google's "Messages" app, which is the only one capable of end-to-end encrypting messages (using a centralized key sever run, you guessed it, by Google)! Google Talk was honestly better than this on literally every metric, and additionally didn't tie everything to a phone number as an identifier.
- sphars 2y ago
  I feel the same. I feel like I remember years ago, when RCS was first being implemented, Google said they would open the APIs so any texting app could use RCS. RCS is the reason I stopped using Textra and moved to Google Messages. Textra did say at one point they would integrate the RCS APIs when it was opened, but nothing has happened yet.
andrewla 2y ago
> Messages from Android phones show up as green bubbles in iMessage chats, and chaos ensues. This is not true -- messages from Android users show up as grey, the same as messages from iMessage. Messages from you *TO* Android users show up as green. I don't know why people keep getting this wrong. That's why it's always a pain to figure out why a group chat is showing up green all of a sudden; you can't tell who brought the Android to the party.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  > it's always a pain to figure out why a group chat is showing up green all of a sudden; you can't tell who brought the Android to the party. Genuinely curious -- why do you feel it's necessary to figure that out at all?
  - buildbot 2y ago
    It really degrades the experience and often does really wonky things, like delivery 3/4 the messages to 3/4 of the people. Happens nearly every time in a decently sized group text for my friend group. I don’t know if that’s Google’s, Apple’s, RCS’s, or SMS’s fault.
    - lxgr 2y ago
      Is it not an option to use one of the many free OTT messengers such as Signal or WhatsApp that offer the same user experience as iMessage, but work for both major mobile OSes, and as an additional bonus don't depend on 30 year old brittle protocols (looking at MMS here) and don't hand over your entire conversation history to your carrier?
      - dingnuts 2y ago
        I spent my entire youth convincing people to move to platforms like signal, and including signal, that would then be used by said people only to talk to me, until they had some UX problem and I became tech support for them after many years of this I gave up and now I use the default: SMS life is too short for this
xnx 2y ago
Hard for me to see Google as the good guys in this RCS situation when Google Chat is separate from Messages and Google Voice is almost totally neglected.
- SllX 2y ago
  That’s cuz they’re not. Nobody is. RCS is a crap standard, but it is a crap standard that the PRC, one of Apple’s larger markets, is requiring in new handsets going forward (something that The Verge reporter overlooked). I’m still curious what the compatibility story even is given Google has their own encryption standard but Apple is sticking to the GSMA spec and in their original announcement said they were going to be working with the GSMA to improve the security and privacy and all the carriers seem to just use Google’s software to run the backend.
  - tr3ntg 2y ago
    Do you have an article on this? This is interesting news to me. Here I was thinking "oh, the big stink Google made about Apple not supporting RCS must have actually moved the needle." But if it's simply a legislative requirement, there's no mystery. That must be why.
    - SllX 2y ago
      Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/UniversalProfile/comments/153rrwl/chinas_proposed_regulation_could_force_apple_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UniversalProfile/comments/153rrwl/c... The original article is a PRC government document in Chinese so this is the relevant translation.
      - hnfong 2y ago
        That's interesting, because that's not exactly what the Chinese text says. It just says vendors need to implement 5G standards. The reddit translation interprets "relevant industry standards for 5G messages" as including RCS. I'm unfamiliar with this, but apparently GSMA claims that "the 5G standards mandate the implementation of RCS in 5G networks and devices". ( https://www.gsma.com/solutions-and-impact/technologies/networks/rcs/universal-profile/ https://www.gsma.com/solutions-and-impact/technologies/netwo... ) So if I'm reading this correctly, any vendor who claims to have 5G support needs to implement RCS?
nerdjon 2y ago
I see a lot of confusing chatter about RCS (and maybe that’s the point). Does anyone actually have a good write up on E2E encryption and whether or not all messages will actually go through google’s servers in plaintext? As in, not Google marketing. Seen a lot of chatter and it seems like it’s is complicated on both fronts. Only mildly worse (depending on the answer) than sending an SMS already but really makes me question the push for it in the first place
- hot_gril 2y ago
  I don't have a writeup, but RCS doesn't specify e2ee. Google has their own thing that doesn't work with other RCS clients (including Apple).
- enragedcacti 2y ago
  Its hard to avoid Google's marketing when the end-to-end implementation proprietary to their RCS app. This is their technical paper which confirms that it is end-to-end encrypted using the Signal protocol. The actual RCS spec has no support for E2E at this point. https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf
- aspenmayer 2y ago
  Apparently Google acquired Jibe and offers it as a cloud solution to carrier OEMs to implement RCS. https://www.gsma.com/get-involved/gsma-membership/gsma_orgs/jibe-mobile-inc/ https://www.gsma.com/get-involved/gsma-membership/gsma_orgs/... https://techcrunch.com/2015/09/30/google-acquires-jibe-mobile-to-help-adopt-new-standard-for-carrier-messaging/ https://techcrunch.com/2015/09/30/google-acquires-jibe-mobil... https://android.googleblog.com/2015/09/committing-to-rcs-latest-standard-in.html https://android.googleblog.com/2015/09/committing-to-rcs-lat... https://jibe.google.com/jibe-platform/ https://jibe.google.com/jibe-platform/ https://www.sicurezzaegiustizia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/messages_e2ee.pdf https://www.sicurezzaegiustizia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/... > RCS uses a set of standard internet protocols like Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)[1] to establish a connection between two clients through a central messaging server. This connection is then used to exchange the messages using Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)[2]. In some RCS deployments this server is hosted by the carrier, and in other deployments the server is hosted by Jibe Mobile from Google. > In situations where the two clients are not on the same carrier network, they’re connected through multiple servers—one from each carrier. The connection between the RCS client app and the carrier’s messaging server is encrypted using Transport Layer Security (TLS). Server to server communications are also encrypted. How end-to-end encryption in Google Messages provides more security https://support.google.com/messages/answer/10262381 https://support.google.com/messages/answer/10262381 Google Messages end-to-end encryption technical paper https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf Data security for RCS Business Messaging (RBM) https://developers.google.com/business-communications/rcs-business-messaging/support/data-security https://developers.google.com/business-communications/rcs-bu...
hcurtiss 2y ago
Sure wish Apple would now make it available in a Windows app, or at least in browser. It would be so helpful to be able to text from my Windows machine through my iPhone.
- zie 2y ago
  That won't happen unless they are forced. They know people buy iPhones to get the blue bubbles in iMessage, so they can be seen as "cool". They only make money by selling iPhones, not iMessage.
bni 2y ago
What is the state of RCS in European countries? I live in Sweden. Do carriers like Telia etc support it? Do they have their own servers or do they let Google handle it?
xnx 2y ago
Every time I read about the various spats and incompatibilities of non-standard message systems, I am extra grateful for email.
somat 2y ago
I am vaguely surprised that phone messaging apps are not a two level architecture. level 1 the ui would manage your contacts and display and dispatch messages. then you have a well defined interface and level 2, I guess you would call them plugins, knows how to authenticate you to to a service and deliver and receive messages. The messaging vendor would supply the plugin and the os vendor would supply the ui. Only vaguely surprised because, while this could be better for the end user and interoperation, it reduces lock in and who wants that? /s
TechRemarker 2y ago
Nothing new in this article. While starts with, "The long-awaited day is here: Apple has announced that its Messages app will support RCS in iOS 18." no such day is here. They previously announced it was coming later this year (which meant iOS 18) and we are still waiting for that future unknown date this year. And still no details on how exactly will work. So while very excited for it, no new news here yet.
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Sad that EU is (likely) banning e2e encryption ("chat control") before RCS ever got an accepted standard for it. To their defense, that was what Apple key saying was their blocker on RCS. Some reasonable truth to it. I don't know how far or how hard Google went trying to make their extensions standards; AFAIK it's not like the web where this work & activity on it is easily seen.
rldjbpin 2y ago
the only silver lining here is that rcs can be used by regulators (say, in the eu) to allow for interoperability across platforms.
vibbix 2y ago
FaceTime next!
- gorkish 2y ago
  Open/Interoperable FaceTime, Announced by Steve Jobs on June 7, 2010. Never Forget
  - rdsnsca 2y ago
    Killed by a lawsuit by a patent troll company, never forget.
    - curtis3389 2y ago
      If only Apple was big enough to fight the patent trolls...
      - shmoe 2y ago
        If only they hadn't fought the patent troll, and were denied the ability to bring a new suit when they lost.
      - acdha 2y ago
        They have - for over a decade. It took time to invalidate the patents and the damages: https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-wins-reversal-502-mln-virnetx-patent-infringement-verdict-2023-03-31/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-wins-reversal-502-mln-vi...
    - viraptor 2y ago
      Not killed. Apple decided not to charge for non-Apple users and not to provide it for free either. They were only prevented from doing P2P connections, not from opening the protocol. Or maybe it could've even been federated... not that Apple likes to play nice with anyone else. Which is funny given that WhatsApp started as a very popular paid service. They could've been that for iMessage and extended it to calls.
    - 2y ago
exabrial 2y ago
about fricken time. So obnoxious they make regular communication so fricken difficult.
atonse 2y ago
> Right now, when people on iOS and Android message each other, the service falls back to SMS — photos and videos are sent at a lower quality, messages are shortened, and importantly, conversations are not end-to-end encrypted like they are in iMessage. They will still not be end-to-end encrypted in RCS. They will just be encrypted in transit, but your carrier (or whoever is running whatever server in an RCS architecture) can read all your messages. There is talk that Google's got some kind of extension that adds E2EE to RCS but others will be well informed on it and can add to my message. I'm blissfully happy with iMessage. For the non-Apple people, we've been using WhatsApp for nearly a decade. But what does this do for OTP messages, etc? I'll have to check if Twilio automatically uses RCS if you send a message to a supported number. I do like the idea of all messages being encrypted in transit at least (SMS is not).
- acdha 2y ago
  > There is talk that Google's got some kind of extension that adds E2EE to RCS but others will be well informed on it and can add to my message. It’s not just talk, but it’s locked down. Google’s huge PR campaign backing RCS has been very impressive at getting people to conflate the two but basically they have an RCS extension implementing the Signal protocol which theoretically could be implemented by anyone but it depends on Google’s key exchange servers which are restricted to their own proprietary app – even third-party Android developers are blocked. It’s a PR masterwork, really. They’re honest on the technical white paper: > E2EE is implemented in the Messages client, so both clients in a conversation must use Messages, otherwise the conversation becomes unencrypted RCS. In rare situations where the conversation starts as E2EE, then one of the clients migrates to a different RCS client or an older Messages client that does not support E2EE, Messages might be unable to detect the change immediately. If the Messages user sends a new message, it’s still E2EE, however the recipient client may render the encrypted base64 payload directly as message content. https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf Meanwhile, the far more widely read marketing pages they actually advertise say things like this: > SMS and MMS don’t support end-to-end encryption, which means your messages are not as secure. https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ https://www.android.com/get-the-message/

127 points by samspenc 2y ago

they still do white text on a lime green background despite every accessibility guidance to the contrary. if I used white text on a lime green background at my job I would be reprimanded. this is malicious compliance.

mdhb 2y ago
Just like how they let you install “web apps” by hiding it deep within a “share” menu. Can’t tell me that’s done in good faith either.
- Gigachad 2y ago
  It’s not really a share menu, it’s just a menu where basically all safari functionality is.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    Yeah it’s also where bookmark, find, print, sharing, and a ton of other stuff are. It’s not like it’s some menu nobody ever looks at, it’s an entirely normal place for something like that to be based on what else they’ve put there.
- Angostura 2y ago
  That's where add to homescreen has been forever
lxgr 2y ago
Compliance with what? No regulatory body or law has forced Apple to do this (yet).
- happymellon 2y ago
  You don't seem to have a great level of awareness of the world. There are plenty of regulatory bodies, especially the EU, who have forced Apple to do things it doesn't want to. They are making noise about interoperability of communications and rather than have the US (we don't have RCS over here, so it's meaningless for us) make rules that forces their hand in a manner that may not be how Apple want to do things, they get out ahead to reduce the power of the argument. The fact that it's a shitty implementation is the feature.
- talldayo 2y ago
  Common sense? If Apple refuses to make obvious accessibility changes to drive customers to some alternative first-party product, that's probably going to get brought up during antitrust hearings.
  - SllX 2y ago
    iPhones are packed to the gills with accessibility features including for contrast, text size, bolding text, filters for the color blind, text to speech and color inversion.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      Which makes the omission of high-contrast message bubbles even more puzzling. Cui bono?
      - SllX 2y ago
        That is in fact one of the accessibility settings. Increases contrast front the blue bubbles too, and color contrast between foreground and background colors system wide.
        talldayo 2y ago
        Good, the defaults are so insidiously-designed that you'd be forgiven for assuming it was naturally user-hostile.
doctoboggan 2y ago
Before iMessage, they used the green bubbles for SMS. So unless Apple was planning a long con, they believed the green bubbles were fine for their customers for years, and switched to a new color (blue) when iMessage came about.
- hnrodey 2y ago
  Back in my day..... all message bubbles were green!
- YetAnotherNick 2y ago
  They used to do black text on green[1], which was fine, but they switched to white text on green/blue. [1]: https://mobiforge.com/files/iphone-sms-1.jpg https://mobiforge.com/files/iphone-sms-1.jpg
  - tr3ntg 2y ago
    For some reason reading this, I didn't believe you, and imagined "black text on green bg" to be very ugly, but you're totally right. There's the classic look we remember. Hmm.
- wrs 2y ago
  What I find ironic with all this talk of lower-class green bubbles is that the Messages app icon is still…green!
kurthr 2y ago
Would you not be reprimanded for white text on a cyan background? That is the alternative on iMessage. The bubble is not blue. Edit: to be fair the text is also not "white" The approximate (sRGB) color codes are: "green" #39ff5a (57,255,90) "white" #fdfdfd (253,253,253) "grey" #d8d8d8 (216,216,216) "blue grey" #aeb9cc (174,185,204) "blue" #218aff (33,138,255) All the contrasts are terrible, but clearly a marketing decision. https://coolors.co/contrast-checker/fdfdfd-218aff https://coolors.co/contrast-checker/fdfdfd-218aff
- BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
  WebAIM Contrast Checker says the standard green/white and blue/white combos both fail by default, so you're sort of right, but, details... > "green" #39ff5a (57,255,90) ... This list of colors is both inaccurate and very inaccurate. In fact, there is not one single green (or blue) color in iMessage, and anyone who says there is is mistaken. 1. The bubble colors show in a gradient from the bottom of the screen (newer messages have more contrast) to the top of the screen (older messages have less contrast). The standard green at the bottom for the newest message is measured with the macOS built-in digital color meter from a screenshot taken on my iPhone is [51,199,89]. The standard green at the top is [56,228,100]. 2. The OP is just being foolish on the internet. Enabling the increased contrast accessibility mode in iOS settings turns the green at the bottom into a dark forest which very easily passes for anyone who actually needs it and isn't just talking out of their ass on the internet to bash iPhones without having used one. > to be fair the text is also not "white" macOS digital color meter says the text is white [255,255,255].
  - kurthr 2y ago
    Thanks, I agree about the accessibility setting. I know the iPhone at least doesn't actually use sRGB so the numbers are bound to be a bit off, but I'm surprised it's that far off. Also, I'd note for modern iOS even just in dark mode the writer is in "black/white", while it's your own messages that are "blue" or "green" depending on whether its RCS so readability is less of an issue.
vundercind 2y ago
For your own messages that you wrote and sent, not anyone else’s, and the contrast lower down on the screen is fine, it’s only at the top of the screen when it’s doing the fade-to-indicate-you-can-scroll-for-more thing that it runs afoul of contrast minimums.
- pseudalopex 2y ago
  > the contrast lower down on the screen is fine Apple say no.[1] [1] https://medium.com/@krvoller/how-iphone-violates-apples-accessibility-guidelines-6785172eb343 https://medium.com/@krvoller/how-iphone-violates-apples-acce...
  - vundercind 2y ago
    1) The examples in those screenshots are way lower contrast than my actual messaging app on the real device. Maybe it wasn’t that bad when they did the calculations, but it’s not a great sign. 2) The author believes Android users’ messages show up green, so I wonder if they’ve ever even used an iPhone. 3) The messages are in fact not hard to read and you can crank up contrast system-wide if that or anything else gives trouble (and if these do, you’ll need improved contrast to browse the web, anyway).
    - pseudalopex 2y ago
      The examples looked very close to a real device to me. What is the contrast ratio on your device? The author identified correctly the message colors. "When you send a text to someone, your message floats to the conversation area in a blue or electric green message bubble (depending on whether you’re texting with another iPhone/iPad/Mac user or some other device)." Many iPhone users make the error you believed the author made. And the criticism would be valid if they never used an iPhone. Please do not use logical fallacies. Calling the green bubbles not hard to read is your opinion. Opposed by other opinions and Apple's guidelines. Not fact. The system high contrast mode makes some other apps less accessible. It makes weather icons all white for example. Your claim about web browsing was false.
BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
iOS supports increasing color contrast for anyone who wants it, and whining about iMessage bubble colors while ignoring that fact is doing the world a huge disservice.

arresin 2y ago

The messages will still be green apparently.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
Even if Apple cracks and ports iMessage to Android, I would still expect them to use a green bubble. It's a social signal to shame those in the outgroup
- recursive 2y ago
  I might be the only one, but I think I would feel slightly uncomfortable having the blue bubble. (that's the apple one, right?) Like maybe not enough to stop me from getting an iphone if I wanted one otherwise. But it's such a visible signifier of being in an in-group. It somehow feels like a tacit approval of social shame strategy. Like even if I had an iphone, I feel like I would want to opt-out of the good color in solidarity with the have-nots or something. I have no interest in iphones, and also don't really participate in any group texts, so it's double academic for me though.
  - yieldcrv 2y ago
    > But it's such a visible signifier of being in an in-group. It also works really well and is a lot of fun for interacting. Many people aren't just using "text", its quite rich forms of interacting. Enough people have grown up with that now to not care about the more rudimentary way form of communication you associate with "texting". It also signifies that there are even MORE ways you can communicate, with the integrated location sharing when desired, video chat, video voicemails, and more. (I'm sure android users have the possibility of all these things, but not as deeply integrated or without any other app.) > and also don't really participate in any group texts shocked /s
    - drcongo 2y ago
      Google Messages actually lets you use green bubbles too.

throw20240511 2y ago

RCS is out-of-the box an unencrypted messaging protocol. The EU forcing Apple to adopt a cleartext protocol like RCS is deeply suspicious. Interoperability will force disclosure of message contents to the state and carrier. (unless your phone vendor has implemented encryption in their implementation. Ie: optimistic encryption aka can’t trust if it is truly working) Use encrypted messaging protocols — iMessage, signal, WhatsApp… Tell the government and the carriers to pound sand and <encrypted>……

distances 2y ago
> The EU forcing Apple to adopt a cleartext protocol like RCS is deeply suspicious. Interoperability will force disclosure of message contents to the state and carrier. I don't think it's suspicious. Almost nobody uses SMS in Europe anyway so this change is almost meaningless over here. It's just WhatsApp and then a little bit of Telegram, Signal etc on top. I'm honestly not sure why anyone drives this (in Europe). I used to work for a mobile operator and RCS was a big thing around 2006-2009 in our R&D department. Then I changed to others jobs and almost didn't believe my eyes when it resurfaced with Google over a decade later. I was absolutely sure it was a dead horse already in 2009.
lxgr 2y ago
The EU is doing no such thing. iMessage was explicitly determined to be out of scope of the DMA [1], simply because there isn't a meaninful user base in Europe (as is the case in almost the entire world except for the US). [1] https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/23990679/apple-imessage-european-union-digital-markets-act-core-platform-service https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/13/23990679/apple-imessage-e...
happymellon 2y ago
Why would you suggest a conspiracy theory like that? I'm not even sure what RCS is, other than a replacement text service that American phone companies offer. I am not aware that it's something that I could use over here.
- sib 2y ago

kalupa 2y ago

ugh, RCS is the worst. I'm all for interoperability but can we at least use something that isn't so awful?

lxgr 2y ago
I think it's a shame too, but I blame Google at least as much as Apple for pushing this ridiculous standard in the first place. As if there was any need to increase the lock-in to phone numbers and mobile carriers for communication and identification any more...

thedougd 2y ago

I hope and expect it to work over Wi-Fi without a cellular signal.

bjoli 2y ago
It does on my android phone, so it doesn'ct seem to be a limitation of the protocol.
lxgr 2y ago
It will. Unlike e.g. MMS or VoLTE, RCS (at least as recently implemented on Android) has never used special APNs or other network-only infrastructure. Even when you have signal and mobile data, it'll take the same route as iMessage or WhatsApp, i.e. your regular "Internet" APN.

Elfener 2y ago

Confused european here: So SMS goes over the phone network, online chat programs (like Discord) go over their own servers obviously, but what does RCS and iMessage go through? Google's and Apple's servers on the internet? The phone system, seeing they're SMS-based? Also, if I'm in the SMS messaging app, I expect my messages to be SMS, not internet-based?

e_y_ 2y ago
Cell phone carriers can set up their own RCS servers. All the major US carriers (AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile US) outsourced their RCS to Google's Jibe platform, though. Messaging apps haven't been pure SMS for a long time. If you've sent photos/images, it's using MMS, which basically uploads the picture to a HTTP server hosted by your carrier and sends the URL in a SMS message that the receiving app knows to automatically download and display the image, provided you have a data connection. iMessage is proprietary to Apple, so of course it goes through Apple's servers. When you set up your iPhone, it registers your phone number with Apple's iMessage server so that whenever someone tries to send a message to your number, it sends it to the iMessage cloud instead of SMS. This can actually cause problems when you switch from an iPhone to Android because other Apple users trying to send you text messages might still get routed to iMessage instead of SMS, and there's no iMessage available for Android. You may have to use a website that Apple provides to manually deregister the phone number from iMessage in that case. I'm not all that familiar with how RCS works but presumably there's a similar registration process so that other phones know that your phone is RCS capable, except decentralized since it's not controlled by a single company.
- brokenmachine 2y ago
  >This can actually cause problems when you switch from an iPhone to Android because other Apple users trying to send you text messages might still get routed to iMessage instead of SMS, and there's no iMessage available for Android. You may have to use a website that Apple provides to manually deregister the phone number from iMessage in that case. Wow, Apple really manages to come up with every possible way to lock-in and hamstring competitors.

jupp0r 2y ago

How can this article not mention "encryption" even once when that's the major point of contention?

gouggoug 2y ago
It does > Right now, when people on iOS and Android message each other, the service falls back to SMS — photos and videos are sent at a lower quality, messages are shortened, and importantly, conversations are not end-to-end encrypted like they are in iMessage.
- jupp0r 2y ago
  This pertains to SMS, not RCS. We've already known for three decades that SMS are not end to end encrypted.
acdha 2y ago
Because RCS doesn’t have end to end encryption. Google has a proprietary service which is restricted to their own client, but no other RCS client can use it.

garciansmith 2y ago

I hope the wider adoption of RCS will mean Google opening it up to other messaging clients on Android. If only because it'd be nice to fall back to something, anything, a bit better than SMS (most of my regular contacts use Signal these days). I just don't want to be locked into Google's client.

lxgr 2y ago
I hope RCS will never be widely adopted. It's bad technology, and despite what Google says, it's not carrier-based: Google runs almost the entire show (since carriers can't be bothered to actually run RCS servers) and gets effectively all messages sent over it in plaintext, unless you happen to use Google's "Messages" app, which is the only one capable of end-to-end encrypting messages (using a centralized key sever run, you guessed it, by Google)! Google Talk was honestly better than this on literally every metric, and additionally didn't tie everything to a phone number as an identifier.
sphars 2y ago
I feel the same. I feel like I remember years ago, when RCS was first being implemented, Google said they would open the APIs so any texting app could use RCS. RCS is the reason I stopped using Textra and moved to Google Messages. Textra did say at one point they would integrate the RCS APIs when it was opened, but nothing has happened yet.

andrewla 2y ago

> Messages from Android phones show up as green bubbles in iMessage chats, and chaos ensues. This is not true -- messages from Android users show up as grey, the same as messages from iMessage. Messages from you *TO* Android users show up as green. I don't know why people keep getting this wrong. That's why it's always a pain to figure out why a group chat is showing up green all of a sudden; you can't tell who brought the Android to the party.

JohnFen 2y ago
> it's always a pain to figure out why a group chat is showing up green all of a sudden; you can't tell who brought the Android to the party. Genuinely curious -- why do you feel it's necessary to figure that out at all?
- buildbot 2y ago
  It really degrades the experience and often does really wonky things, like delivery 3/4 the messages to 3/4 of the people. Happens nearly every time in a decently sized group text for my friend group. I don’t know if that’s Google’s, Apple’s, RCS’s, or SMS’s fault.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    Is it not an option to use one of the many free OTT messengers such as Signal or WhatsApp that offer the same user experience as iMessage, but work for both major mobile OSes, and as an additional bonus don't depend on 30 year old brittle protocols (looking at MMS here) and don't hand over your entire conversation history to your carrier?
    - dingnuts 2y ago
      I spent my entire youth convincing people to move to platforms like signal, and including signal, that would then be used by said people only to talk to me, until they had some UX problem and I became tech support for them after many years of this I gave up and now I use the default: SMS life is too short for this

xnx 2y ago

Hard for me to see Google as the good guys in this RCS situation when Google Chat is separate from Messages and Google Voice is almost totally neglected.

SllX 2y ago
That’s cuz they’re not. Nobody is. RCS is a crap standard, but it is a crap standard that the PRC, one of Apple’s larger markets, is requiring in new handsets going forward (something that The Verge reporter overlooked). I’m still curious what the compatibility story even is given Google has their own encryption standard but Apple is sticking to the GSMA spec and in their original announcement said they were going to be working with the GSMA to improve the security and privacy and all the carriers seem to just use Google’s software to run the backend.
- tr3ntg 2y ago
  Do you have an article on this? This is interesting news to me. Here I was thinking "oh, the big stink Google made about Apple not supporting RCS must have actually moved the needle." But if it's simply a legislative requirement, there's no mystery. That must be why.
  - SllX 2y ago
    Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/UniversalProfile/comments/153rrwl/chinas_proposed_regulation_could_force_apple_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UniversalProfile/comments/153rrwl/c... The original article is a PRC government document in Chinese so this is the relevant translation.
    - hnfong 2y ago
      That's interesting, because that's not exactly what the Chinese text says. It just says vendors need to implement 5G standards. The reddit translation interprets "relevant industry standards for 5G messages" as including RCS. I'm unfamiliar with this, but apparently GSMA claims that "the 5G standards mandate the implementation of RCS in 5G networks and devices". ( https://www.gsma.com/solutions-and-impact/technologies/networks/rcs/universal-profile/ https://www.gsma.com/solutions-and-impact/technologies/netwo... ) So if I'm reading this correctly, any vendor who claims to have 5G support needs to implement RCS?

nerdjon 2y ago

I see a lot of confusing chatter about RCS (and maybe that’s the point). Does anyone actually have a good write up on E2E encryption and whether or not all messages will actually go through google’s servers in plaintext? As in, not Google marketing. Seen a lot of chatter and it seems like it’s is complicated on both fronts. Only mildly worse (depending on the answer) than sending an SMS already but really makes me question the push for it in the first place

hot_gril 2y ago
I don't have a writeup, but RCS doesn't specify e2ee. Google has their own thing that doesn't work with other RCS clients (including Apple).
enragedcacti 2y ago
Its hard to avoid Google's marketing when the end-to-end implementation proprietary to their RCS app. This is their technical paper which confirms that it is end-to-end encrypted using the Signal protocol. The actual RCS spec has no support for E2E at this point. https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf
aspenmayer 2y ago
Apparently Google acquired Jibe and offers it as a cloud solution to carrier OEMs to implement RCS. https://www.gsma.com/get-involved/gsma-membership/gsma_orgs/jibe-mobile-inc/ https://www.gsma.com/get-involved/gsma-membership/gsma_orgs/... https://techcrunch.com/2015/09/30/google-acquires-jibe-mobile-to-help-adopt-new-standard-for-carrier-messaging/ https://techcrunch.com/2015/09/30/google-acquires-jibe-mobil... https://android.googleblog.com/2015/09/committing-to-rcs-latest-standard-in.html https://android.googleblog.com/2015/09/committing-to-rcs-lat... https://jibe.google.com/jibe-platform/ https://jibe.google.com/jibe-platform/ https://www.sicurezzaegiustizia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/messages_e2ee.pdf https://www.sicurezzaegiustizia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/... > RCS uses a set of standard internet protocols like Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)[1] to establish a connection between two clients through a central messaging server. This connection is then used to exchange the messages using Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)[2]. In some RCS deployments this server is hosted by the carrier, and in other deployments the server is hosted by Jibe Mobile from Google. > In situations where the two clients are not on the same carrier network, they’re connected through multiple servers—one from each carrier. The connection between the RCS client app and the carrier’s messaging server is encrypted using Transport Layer Security (TLS). Server to server communications are also encrypted. How end-to-end encryption in Google Messages provides more security https://support.google.com/messages/answer/10262381 https://support.google.com/messages/answer/10262381 Google Messages end-to-end encryption technical paper https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf Data security for RCS Business Messaging (RBM) https://developers.google.com/business-communications/rcs-business-messaging/support/data-security https://developers.google.com/business-communications/rcs-bu...

hcurtiss 2y ago

Sure wish Apple would now make it available in a Windows app, or at least in browser. It would be so helpful to be able to text from my Windows machine through my iPhone.

zie 2y ago
That won't happen unless they are forced. They know people buy iPhones to get the blue bubbles in iMessage, so they can be seen as "cool". They only make money by selling iPhones, not iMessage.

bni 2y ago

What is the state of RCS in European countries? I live in Sweden. Do carriers like Telia etc support it? Do they have their own servers or do they let Google handle it?

xnx 2y ago

Every time I read about the various spats and incompatibilities of non-standard message systems, I am extra grateful for email.

somat 2y ago

I am vaguely surprised that phone messaging apps are not a two level architecture. level 1 the ui would manage your contacts and display and dispatch messages. then you have a well defined interface and level 2, I guess you would call them plugins, knows how to authenticate you to to a service and deliver and receive messages. The messaging vendor would supply the plugin and the os vendor would supply the ui. Only vaguely surprised because, while this could be better for the end user and interoperation, it reduces lock in and who wants that? /s

TechRemarker 2y ago

Nothing new in this article. While starts with, "The long-awaited day is here: Apple has announced that its Messages app will support RCS in iOS 18." no such day is here. They previously announced it was coming later this year (which meant iOS 18) and we are still waiting for that future unknown date this year. And still no details on how exactly will work. So while very excited for it, no new news here yet.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago

Sad that EU is (likely) banning e2e encryption ("chat control") before RCS ever got an accepted standard for it. To their defense, that was what Apple key saying was their blocker on RCS. Some reasonable truth to it. I don't know how far or how hard Google went trying to make their extensions standards; AFAIK it's not like the web where this work & activity on it is easily seen.

rldjbpin 2y ago

the only silver lining here is that rcs can be used by regulators (say, in the eu) to allow for interoperability across platforms.

vibbix 2y ago

FaceTime next!

gorkish 2y ago
Open/Interoperable FaceTime, Announced by Steve Jobs on June 7, 2010. Never Forget
- rdsnsca 2y ago
  Killed by a lawsuit by a patent troll company, never forget.
  - curtis3389 2y ago
    If only Apple was big enough to fight the patent trolls...
    - shmoe 2y ago
      If only they hadn't fought the patent troll, and were denied the ability to bring a new suit when they lost.
    - acdha 2y ago
      They have - for over a decade. It took time to invalidate the patents and the damages: https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-wins-reversal-502-mln-virnetx-patent-infringement-verdict-2023-03-31/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-wins-reversal-502-mln-vi...
  - viraptor 2y ago
    Not killed. Apple decided not to charge for non-Apple users and not to provide it for free either. They were only prevented from doing P2P connections, not from opening the protocol. Or maybe it could've even been federated... not that Apple likes to play nice with anyone else. Which is funny given that WhatsApp started as a very popular paid service. They could've been that for iMessage and extended it to calls.
  - 2y ago

exabrial 2y ago

about fricken time. So obnoxious they make regular communication so fricken difficult.

atonse 2y ago

> Right now, when people on iOS and Android message each other, the service falls back to SMS — photos and videos are sent at a lower quality, messages are shortened, and importantly, conversations are not end-to-end encrypted like they are in iMessage. They will still not be end-to-end encrypted in RCS. They will just be encrypted in transit, but your carrier (or whoever is running whatever server in an RCS architecture) can read all your messages. There is talk that Google's got some kind of extension that adds E2EE to RCS but others will be well informed on it and can add to my message. I'm blissfully happy with iMessage. For the non-Apple people, we've been using WhatsApp for nearly a decade. But what does this do for OTP messages, etc? I'll have to check if Twilio automatically uses RCS if you send a message to a supported number. I do like the idea of all messages being encrypted in transit at least (SMS is not).

acdha 2y ago
> There is talk that Google's got some kind of extension that adds E2EE to RCS but others will be well informed on it and can add to my message. It’s not just talk, but it’s locked down. Google’s huge PR campaign backing RCS has been very impressive at getting people to conflate the two but basically they have an RCS extension implementing the Signal protocol which theoretically could be implemented by anyone but it depends on Google’s key exchange servers which are restricted to their own proprietary app – even third-party Android developers are blocked. It’s a PR masterwork, really. They’re honest on the technical white paper: > E2EE is implemented in the Messages client, so both clients in a conversation must use Messages, otherwise the conversation becomes unencrypted RCS. In rare situations where the conversation starts as E2EE, then one of the clients migrates to a different RCS client or an older Messages client that does not support E2EE, Messages might be unable to detect the change immediately. If the Messages user sends a new message, it’s still E2EE, however the recipient client may render the encrypted base64 payload directly as message content. https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf Meanwhile, the far more widely read marketing pages they actually advertise say things like this: > SMS and MMS don’t support end-to-end encryption, which means your messages are not as secure. https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ https://www.android.com/get-the-message/