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I think that USA culture at least has certainly gone too far in the direction of "college degree = white collar job = comfortable middle-class lifestyle". From

I think that USA culture at least has certainly gone too far in the direction of "college degree = white collar job = comfortable middle-class lifestyle". From what I understand, the PRC ironically also ended up in a similar situation with a vast oversupply of college graduates. That said, the article focuses on people who have two jobs (their day job and also social media influencing), so I wonder if this sort of stuff is an overcorrection: romanticization of blue-collar jobs with little discussion of its health risks and working conditions.

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
> "[get good grades =] college degree = white collar job = comfortable middle-class lifestyle" It's not entirely, but mostly a lie omitting AI & automation, outsourcing, and the crushing debt of college loans. The end resulting job ladder has to be worth the opportunity cost of time and investment of treasure and debt. Working with your hands in skilled trade probably can't be replaced anytime soon while office jobs are waiting for the other shoe to drop for layoffs. 0. Apprentice somewhere surrounded by people who are passionate about excellence and integrity. 1. Find a local area that needs a large enough niche(s) such as automotive mechanic A/C-electric, commercial HVAC, or jet turbine overhauling and own your own business when you can rather than being an employee. The other thing that has to change is women discriminating against men who don't have Master's degree, don't work in an office jobs, and/or aren't already decamillionaires because it's one of the subtle, unrealistic pressures placed on 20- to 30-something men who are often sent mixed messages about lacking academic achievement they're systematically dissuaded from pursuing.
givemeethekeys 2y ago
White collar salaries still pay better than blue collar salaries. Making 6 figures is considered a big deal among blue collar workers in America, while making 6 figures is a baseline expectation among white collar workers. The US gets thousands of people coming in through the border every day, who bring down blue collar salaries more than they bring down white collar salaries.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  And while plenty of people do make six figures in the trades, it's a much worse way to make it. That level of pay almost always comes from overtime, uneven demand tied either to seasonal or boom/bust cycles, or traveling away from home for work. Often some combination of these. Almost no one in the trades is just working a 9-5 across town for $140k year after year after year that's for sure. You might have seasons where you make that much but at some point you have to stop pounding overtime, or the work just dries up and you have to coast on what you put away earlier.
  - wormius 2y ago
    So, sort of like game dev? Game Dev is the blue collar of white collar?
    - CRConrad 2y ago
      Most of white collar is the blue collar of white collar.
  - doubled112 2y ago
    Plus many making more are independent contractors or own a company. Buy your own truck, your own tools and gear, pay for materials out of your cut, etc. There are a lot of costs people don't think of.
- darth_avocado 2y ago
  Believe it or not, outside of tech, white collar salaries are still not 100k+. Median white collar salaries hover around $80k. Blue collar jobs like construction and plumbing can fetch you those salaries, but without the debt that comes with getting a white collar job.
  - xfitm3 2y ago
    When you own your own business you can easily make 6 figures, it just takes years of sweat equity and rough times. A friend of mine has grown his business from 100k/y in sales (and 5-10k profit) to millions per year (~300k profit) installing TVs and stereos in 13 years. He worked his ass off for a long time.
pkaye 2y ago
US level of tertiary education is closer to middle of the pack among OECD countries between France and Switzerland. https://data.oecd.org/eduatt/population-with-tertiary-education.htm https://data.oecd.org/eduatt/population-with-tertiary-educat...
xkcd-sucks 2y ago
This kind of consumerist equation: Pay money, physically present to classes and follow explicit instructions, receive grade, [repeat at med school], get high paying job expectation etc. also has the side effect of totally lowering academic standards both as pressure from the top down and friction from the ground up. It's a super depressing realization to hit any passion-oriented graduate student supported on a teaching appointment among other things
- jdmdmdmdmd 2y ago
  [dead]

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago

> "[get good grades =] college degree = white collar job = comfortable middle-class lifestyle" It's not entirely, but mostly a lie omitting AI & automation, outsourcing, and the crushing debt of college loans. The end resulting job ladder has to be worth the opportunity cost of time and investment of treasure and debt. Working with your hands in skilled trade probably can't be replaced anytime soon while office jobs are waiting for the other shoe to drop for layoffs. 0. Apprentice somewhere surrounded by people who are passionate about excellence and integrity. 1. Find a local area that needs a large enough niche(s) such as automotive mechanic A/C-electric, commercial HVAC, or jet turbine overhauling and own your own business when you can rather than being an employee. The other thing that has to change is women discriminating against men who don't have Master's degree, don't work in an office jobs, and/or aren't already decamillionaires because it's one of the subtle, unrealistic pressures placed on 20- to 30-something men who are often sent mixed messages about lacking academic achievement they're systematically dissuaded from pursuing.

givemeethekeys 2y ago

White collar salaries still pay better than blue collar salaries. Making 6 figures is considered a big deal among blue collar workers in America, while making 6 figures is a baseline expectation among white collar workers. The US gets thousands of people coming in through the border every day, who bring down blue collar salaries more than they bring down white collar salaries.

giraffe_lady 2y ago
And while plenty of people do make six figures in the trades, it's a much worse way to make it. That level of pay almost always comes from overtime, uneven demand tied either to seasonal or boom/bust cycles, or traveling away from home for work. Often some combination of these. Almost no one in the trades is just working a 9-5 across town for $140k year after year after year that's for sure. You might have seasons where you make that much but at some point you have to stop pounding overtime, or the work just dries up and you have to coast on what you put away earlier.
- wormius 2y ago
  So, sort of like game dev? Game Dev is the blue collar of white collar?
  - CRConrad 2y ago
    Most of white collar is the blue collar of white collar.
- doubled112 2y ago
  Plus many making more are independent contractors or own a company. Buy your own truck, your own tools and gear, pay for materials out of your cut, etc. There are a lot of costs people don't think of.
darth_avocado 2y ago
Believe it or not, outside of tech, white collar salaries are still not 100k+. Median white collar salaries hover around $80k. Blue collar jobs like construction and plumbing can fetch you those salaries, but without the debt that comes with getting a white collar job.
- xfitm3 2y ago
  When you own your own business you can easily make 6 figures, it just takes years of sweat equity and rough times. A friend of mine has grown his business from 100k/y in sales (and 5-10k profit) to millions per year (~300k profit) installing TVs and stereos in 13 years. He worked his ass off for a long time.

pkaye 2y ago

US level of tertiary education is closer to middle of the pack among OECD countries between France and Switzerland. https://data.oecd.org/eduatt/population-with-tertiary-education.htm https://data.oecd.org/eduatt/population-with-tertiary-educat...

xkcd-sucks 2y ago

This kind of consumerist equation: Pay money, physically present to classes and follow explicit instructions, receive grade, [repeat at med school], get high paying job expectation etc. also has the side effect of totally lowering academic standards both as pressure from the top down and friction from the ground up. It's a super depressing realization to hit any passion-oriented graduate student supported on a teaching appointment among other things

jdmdmdmdmd 2y ago
[dead]