4 ms·

I wonder why this took so long? Tax industry lobbyists just kept killing it?

by chrsw 2y ago

jedberg 2y ago
Lobbyists and also some (actually a lot of) the GOP believes that if it's too easy to file taxes, then it will be too easy to raise taxes. They feel like the pain keeps people anti-tax, which works to their anti-tax agenda.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  If they really felt that way they would do away with payroll witholding and make everyone pay their taxes with quarterly estimated payments. They don't because witholding is easier for everyone and everyone would hate having to write a check to the IRS every few months.
  - jedberg 2y ago
    Have you ever wondered why the withholding is required to be called out separately on your paycheck, and it's not just paid on your behalf? It's because they want you to look at your paystub and get mad at all the deductions. And people used to have make quarterly statements, they switched it because it was cheaper to make the employer do it instead of enforcing when people forgot.
    - dataflow 2y ago
      > Have you ever wondered why the withholding is required to be called out separately on your paycheck, and it's not just paid on your behalf? It's because they want you to look at your paystub and get mad at all the deductions. This sounds like nonsense. Did you read this somewhere credible? You need to know how much has been withheld because you might have multiple jobs during the year and the tax is bracketed depending on your total income during the year. If they hid that information during the year, people wouldn't have the documentation they need to figure out if they need to adjust their withholding to avoid a penalty (or a free government loan).
      - jedberg 2y ago
        I can't find them now, but yes, they were direct quotes from GOP House members about wanting people to feel the pain of taxes to make it harder to raise them. And you don't need to see your social security and medicare taxes on each stub, because you can't change their withholding. You only need it on your W2. And in fact your employer pays half of those taxes already. That was the compromise. That your employer pays half, which you don't see, and you pay the other other half. They could have easily had your employer pay the full amount and then you'd just make less, but they purposely did it this way so that you get mad about how much the tax is.
        dataflow 2y ago
        Okay, but if you're talking about the social security and Medicare portions then that... only explains those portions, no? The comment above made it seem like it's talking about all income tax, which wouldn't make sense.
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      It's your money, I think it's reasonable to see what it is being withheld for. These days with most payroll being direct deposited I don't think many people look at their pay stubs anymore anyway. At least I know I don't; maybe I would if I were paid by the hour, just to verify that all the hours were counted. I'm just saying, if anyone wanted to keep taxes "painful" they would not have implemented withholding in the first place. It's more painful to have to pay "out of pocket" than to have the money taken before you ever see it.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        > These days with most payroll being direct deposited I don't think many people look at their pay stubs anymore anyway. Am I really the only one who downloads their entire paystub every paycheck and enters all the tax numbers, benefits lines, 401K deductions and so on into a spreadsheet or Quicken so I can check on accuracy and tally everything up at the end of each year? I've found errors once or twice by doing this. Come on, there must at least be dozens of us, out of hundreds of millions of employees, who do this...
      - jedberg 2y ago
        Like I said, they wanted to make you have to pay, but enforcement got too expensive, otherwise they would have. Also Democrats have a say too.
      - wildzzz 2y ago
        Is it really my money if it's immediately going to the government before it hits my bank account? Is it really my money if I am subject to fines, wage garnishment, repossession, or prison if I fail to give it to them? The government could greatly simply my taxes if income tax is just rolled up into payroll tax. My employer is already paying payroll tax on my behalf so why not just pay more of it and lower my salary to compensate?
        DANmode 2y ago
        Not all income involves payroll - or employers!
cratermoon 2y ago
Pretty much. https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...

I wonder why this took so long? Tax industry lobbyists just kept killing it?

by chrsw 2y ago

I wonder why this took so long? Tax industry lobbyists just kept killing it?

Lobbyists and also some (actually a lot of) the GOP believes that if it's too easy to file taxes, then it will be too easy to raise taxes. They feel like the pain keeps people anti-tax, which works to their anti-tax agenda.

SoftTalker 2y ago
If they really felt that way they would do away with payroll witholding and make everyone pay their taxes with quarterly estimated payments. They don't because witholding is easier for everyone and everyone would hate having to write a check to the IRS every few months.
- jedberg 2y ago
  Have you ever wondered why the withholding is required to be called out separately on your paycheck, and it's not just paid on your behalf? It's because they want you to look at your paystub and get mad at all the deductions. And people used to have make quarterly statements, they switched it because it was cheaper to make the employer do it instead of enforcing when people forgot.
  - dataflow 2y ago
    > Have you ever wondered why the withholding is required to be called out separately on your paycheck, and it's not just paid on your behalf? It's because they want you to look at your paystub and get mad at all the deductions. This sounds like nonsense. Did you read this somewhere credible? You need to know how much has been withheld because you might have multiple jobs during the year and the tax is bracketed depending on your total income during the year. If they hid that information during the year, people wouldn't have the documentation they need to figure out if they need to adjust their withholding to avoid a penalty (or a free government loan).
    - jedberg 2y ago
      I can't find them now, but yes, they were direct quotes from GOP House members about wanting people to feel the pain of taxes to make it harder to raise them. And you don't need to see your social security and medicare taxes on each stub, because you can't change their withholding. You only need it on your W2. And in fact your employer pays half of those taxes already. That was the compromise. That your employer pays half, which you don't see, and you pay the other other half. They could have easily had your employer pay the full amount and then you'd just make less, but they purposely did it this way so that you get mad about how much the tax is.
      - dataflow 2y ago
        Okay, but if you're talking about the social security and Medicare portions then that... only explains those portions, no? The comment above made it seem like it's talking about all income tax, which wouldn't make sense.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    It's your money, I think it's reasonable to see what it is being withheld for. These days with most payroll being direct deposited I don't think many people look at their pay stubs anymore anyway. At least I know I don't; maybe I would if I were paid by the hour, just to verify that all the hours were counted. I'm just saying, if anyone wanted to keep taxes "painful" they would not have implemented withholding in the first place. It's more painful to have to pay "out of pocket" than to have the money taken before you ever see it.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      > These days with most payroll being direct deposited I don't think many people look at their pay stubs anymore anyway. Am I really the only one who downloads their entire paystub every paycheck and enters all the tax numbers, benefits lines, 401K deductions and so on into a spreadsheet or Quicken so I can check on accuracy and tally everything up at the end of each year? I've found errors once or twice by doing this. Come on, there must at least be dozens of us, out of hundreds of millions of employees, who do this...
    - jedberg 2y ago
      Like I said, they wanted to make you have to pay, but enforcement got too expensive, otherwise they would have. Also Democrats have a say too.
    - wildzzz 2y ago
      Is it really my money if it's immediately going to the government before it hits my bank account? Is it really my money if I am subject to fines, wage garnishment, repossession, or prison if I fail to give it to them? The government could greatly simply my taxes if income tax is just rolled up into payroll tax. My employer is already paying payroll tax on my behalf so why not just pay more of it and lower my salary to compensate?
      - DANmode 2y ago
        Not all income involves payroll - or employers!

cratermoon 2y ago

Pretty much. https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...