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Sorry, this is seriously misinformed: > YouTube / Google CDN is much bigger than Netflix Youtube and Netflix are on par. According to Sandvine, Netflix sneake

Sorry, this is seriously misinformed: > YouTube / Google CDN is much bigger than Netflix Youtube and Netflix are on par. According to Sandvine, Netflix sneaked past Youtube in volume in 2023[1]. I believe their 2024 report shows them still neck-and-neck. > you can make pretty much everything work on modern solution Presenting a false equivalence without evidence is not convincing. "You could write it in SNOBOL and deploy it on TempleOS". Netflix didn't choose something arbitrary or by mistake. They chose one of the world's highest performing and most robustly tested infrastructure operating systems. It's the reason a FreeBSD derivative lies at the core of Juniper routers, Isilon and Netapp storage heads, every Playstation 3/4/5, and got mashed into NeXTSTEP to spawn Darwin and thence macOS, iOS etc. It continues to surprise me how folks in the tech sector routinely fail to notice how much BSD is deployed in the infrastructure around them. > All the benefits they added to FreeBSD could be added the same way in Linux They cannot. Case in point, the bisect analysis described in the presentation above doesn't exist for Linux, where userland distributions develop independently from the kernel. Netflix is touting here the value of FreeBSD's unified release, since the bisect process fundamentally relies on a single dimension of change (please ignore the mathematicians muttering about Schur's transform). [1] https://www.sandvine.com/press-releases/sandvines-2023-global-internet-phenomena-report-shows-24-jump-in-video-traffic-with-netflix-volume-overtaking-youtube https://www.sandvine.com/press-releases/sandvines-2023-globa...

zamadatix 2y ago
> It's the reason a FreeBSD derivative lies at the core of Juniper routers Juniper is a particularly poor example to start the list with as they have been moving away from FreeBSD for years now with Junos OS Evolved being Linux based and specifically about how being based on FreeBSD was no longer a benefit to them.
- pyvpx 2y ago
  no one seriously uses Evo in the way JunOS powers things. they’ve managed to package FreeBSD inside some Linux flavors. it’s wild, imo.
  - zamadatix 2y ago
    Guess I'm nobody, I think the PTX line is great ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
davidw 2y ago
> There's a reason it's the core of Juniper routers, Isilon and Netapp storage heads, every Playstation 3/4/5, and got mashed into NeXTSTEP to spawn macOS. Licensing? FreeBSD is a fine OS that surely has some advantages here and there, but I'm also inclined to think that big companies can make stuff work if they want to. PHP at Meta seems like a pretty good example of this.
- papageek 2y ago
  FreeBSD or Linux management plane on routers/switches is mostly irrelevant. The majority of the data simply flows through the asics untouched.
- inopinatus 2y ago
  The permissive, freewheeling nature of the BSD license is touted by some as an advantage for infrastructure use but in practice, Linux-based devices and services aren't particularly encumbered by the GPL, so to me it's a wash.
  - davidw 2y ago
    Could be lawyers at some companies just didn't want anything to do with the GPL, especially if they're fiddling with the kernel itself. Maybe they're not even correct about the details of it, just fearful. "Lawyers overly cautious" is not an uncommon thing to see.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Having seen the screams from some people when you use GPL legally I can't blame the lawyers. You might be correct but you will still get annoying people yelling you are not. there is also the cost to verifying you are correct (we put the wrong address in for where to send you request for sorce, fortunately a tester caught it before release, but still expensive as the lawyers forced the full recall process meaning we had to send a tech to upgrade the testers instead of saying where to download the fix)
  - throw0101d 2y ago
toast0 2y ago
> Incorrect. Case in point, the bisect analysis described in the presentation above doesn't exist for Linux, where userland distributions develop independently from the kernel. You can certainly bisect the Linux kernel changes though. And the bug in question was a kernel bug. For a project like this, IMHO, most of the interesting bugs are going to be kernel bugs.
- inopinatus 2y ago
  Perhaps so, but this knowledge is post hoc for the incident and does not undermine the engineering value of the unified release.
  - toast0 2y ago
    Probably, if you were doing this on Linux, you'd follow someone's Linux tree, and not run Debian unstable with updates to everything. You might end up building a lightweight distribution yourself; some simple init, enough bits and bobs for in place debugging, and the application and its monitoring tools. Anyway, if you did come across a problem where userland and kernel changed and it wasn't clear where the breakage is, the process is simple. Test new kernel with old userland and old kernel with new userland, and see which part broke. Then bisect if you still can't tell by inspection.
forgotpwd16 2y ago
>It's the reason a FreeBSD derivative A reason. Licensing also plays a role. Some may say the most important one. >Case in point Not really. This is an advantage, yes, but was inherent to BSD development style. Not an addition they did. Assume GP refers to other presentations, talking about the optimizations needed to get the performance Netflix needs from FreeBSD. >doesn't exist for Linux But can be done by putting kernel and userland in same repo as modules.

zamadatix 2y ago

> It's the reason a FreeBSD derivative lies at the core of Juniper routers Juniper is a particularly poor example to start the list with as they have been moving away from FreeBSD for years now with Junos OS Evolved being Linux based and specifically about how being based on FreeBSD was no longer a benefit to them.

pyvpx 2y ago
no one seriously uses Evo in the way JunOS powers things. they’ve managed to package FreeBSD inside some Linux flavors. it’s wild, imo.
- zamadatix 2y ago
  Guess I'm nobody, I think the PTX line is great ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

davidw 2y ago

> There's a reason it's the core of Juniper routers, Isilon and Netapp storage heads, every Playstation 3/4/5, and got mashed into NeXTSTEP to spawn macOS. Licensing? FreeBSD is a fine OS that surely has some advantages here and there, but I'm also inclined to think that big companies can make stuff work if they want to. PHP at Meta seems like a pretty good example of this.

papageek 2y ago
FreeBSD or Linux management plane on routers/switches is mostly irrelevant. The majority of the data simply flows through the asics untouched.
inopinatus 2y ago
The permissive, freewheeling nature of the BSD license is touted by some as an advantage for infrastructure use but in practice, Linux-based devices and services aren't particularly encumbered by the GPL, so to me it's a wash.
- davidw 2y ago
  Could be lawyers at some companies just didn't want anything to do with the GPL, especially if they're fiddling with the kernel itself. Maybe they're not even correct about the details of it, just fearful. "Lawyers overly cautious" is not an uncommon thing to see.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Having seen the screams from some people when you use GPL legally I can't blame the lawyers. You might be correct but you will still get annoying people yelling you are not. there is also the cost to verifying you are correct (we put the wrong address in for where to send you request for sorce, fortunately a tester caught it before release, but still expensive as the lawyers forced the full recall process meaning we had to send a tech to upgrade the testers instead of saying where to download the fix)
- throw0101d 2y ago

toast0 2y ago

> Incorrect. Case in point, the bisect analysis described in the presentation above doesn't exist for Linux, where userland distributions develop independently from the kernel. You can certainly bisect the Linux kernel changes though. And the bug in question was a kernel bug. For a project like this, IMHO, most of the interesting bugs are going to be kernel bugs.

inopinatus 2y ago
Perhaps so, but this knowledge is post hoc for the incident and does not undermine the engineering value of the unified release.
- toast0 2y ago
  Probably, if you were doing this on Linux, you'd follow someone's Linux tree, and not run Debian unstable with updates to everything. You might end up building a lightweight distribution yourself; some simple init, enough bits and bobs for in place debugging, and the application and its monitoring tools. Anyway, if you did come across a problem where userland and kernel changed and it wasn't clear where the breakage is, the process is simple. Test new kernel with old userland and old kernel with new userland, and see which part broke. Then bisect if you still can't tell by inspection.

forgotpwd16 2y ago

>It's the reason a FreeBSD derivative A reason. Licensing also plays a role. Some may say the most important one. >Case in point Not really. This is an advantage, yes, but was inherent to BSD development style. Not an addition they did. Assume GP refers to other presentations, talking about the optimizations needed to get the performance Netflix needs from FreeBSD. >doesn't exist for Linux But can be done by putting kernel and userland in same repo as modules.