> "A very slow boil, when the liquid is hardly moving except for a bubble at one point, is called to simmer" Yup, I remember reading that definition of simmer,

> "A very slow boil, when the liquid is hardly moving except for a bubble at one point, is called to simmer" Yup, I remember reading that definition of simmer, and I tried to use that. I omitted that definition from my post to save space; besides, I can't give an exact quote because I lost my copy of Child's book in a disaster. Net, using her definition about quivering water or some such, the results were as I described, chunks of charcoal -- in my experience that definition of simmer was TOO HOT, over 200 F, which is TOO HOT. > A very slow boil That word, "boil", that's close to 212 F. The beef chunks are small enough that quickly they will be at the temperature of the liquid so will be well above 170 F or so. Anything like "boil" is just way too hot. The solution both then and now was a thermometer and a definition of simmer in terms of TEMPERATURE as measured by a thermometer. I use the same approach with pork: Pork Picnic shoulder, skin side down, on a V-rack, in a roasting pan, uncovered, in an oven at 210 F to an internal temperature of 179 F. Use a fork or some tongs and separate the cooked, lean meat from the bone, fat, and skin. Nearly all the fat is next to the skin. The resulting pork falls apart. For sandwiches, 4 ounces per sandwich is generous. Maybe add some salt and red pepper flakes. Add ~2 ounces of BBQ sauce. If have the cooked pork cold, in a bowl, covered, warm it in microwave. Then using, say, two forks, separate the meat chunks into fibers (no knife needed) and mix in the sauce. When it's cold, it's too stiff to separate into fibers; warmed, it falls apart. 210 F oven and 179 F internal temperature. "Low and slow".