4 ms·

Nobody ever claims that suburban areas are crime-ridden. “Cities are safe,” which ones?

organsnyder 2y ago
You're much more likely to be seriously injured or killed in an auto accident than you are as the victim of a random violent crime.
- theamk 2y ago
  only if you constrain yourself to "violent claim reported to and investigated by police" I've received more harrassment on busses and trains that I've had car incidents, and I've spent much more time in car compared to public transit.
- compiler-devel 2y ago
  This unhelpful whataboutism doesn’t refute earlier claims in this thread nor does it reinforce any opposite claims. What are you trying to say about the safety of cities here?
  - organsnyder 2y ago
    I'm saying that the safety of suburbs is overstated due to the higher number of vehicle miles travelled.
    - jjav 2y ago
      > I'm saying that the safety of suburbs is overstated due to the higher number of vehicle miles travelled. Let's see.. Representing city: traffic fatalities in San Francisco in 2021: 30 [0] Representing suburbia: traffic fatalities in Palo Alto in 2020: 4 [1] (On a quick search I didn't find stats for exact same year, but these are pretty close for a sense of scale.) [0] https://www.sfgov.org/scorecards/transportation/traffic-fatalities https://www.sfgov.org/scorecards/transportation/traffic-fata... [1] https://www.city-data.com/accidents/acc-Palo-Alto-California.html https://www.city-data.com/accidents/acc-Palo-Alto-California...
      - organsnyder 2y ago
        San Francisco population: 808,437 as of 2020 (Wikipedia) Palo Alto population: 68,572 as of 2020 (Wikipedia) Traffic fatalities per capita in San Francisco in 2021: 3.7 / 100,000 Traffic fatalities per capita in Palo Alto in 2020: 5.8 / 100,000 Also, 2020 and 2021 aren't comparable due to the pandemic. Traffic fatalities in the United States increased 10 percent from 2020 to 2021 [0]. [0] https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813509.pdf https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/...
- StanislavPetrov 2y ago
  Only because many places (like NYC) don't count violent crimes as violent. If a mentally deranged vagrant runs up to you and punches you hard in the face, knocking you to the ground before running off, in NYC that is considered 3rd degree assault - a non-violent misdemeanor. On the rare occasion when this violent lunatic is caught, he is given an appearance ticket and released - non violent misdemeanors like this aren't "bail eligible". In a massive portion of these cases, the prosecutor will simply drop the charges. On the very, very rare occasion when it does go to trial the lunatic is deemed "not fit to stand trial" and simply released back onto the street. In all of these events, this is not recorded as a violent crime, so people with their head in the sand can wave their hands in the air and talk about how there is no violent crime in the city. But the often traumatized person who has been a victim of this violent assault now suffers from the memory of being attacked - more so because they know their attacker faces absolutely no sanction and is back out on the street. People who live in the city and ride the subway are constantly menaced, harassed and/or assaulted and that is an extremely unfriendly and dangerous environment to live in, even if it doesn't show up in the sanitized statistics.

You're much more likely to be seriously injured or killed in an auto accident than you are as the victim of a random violent crime.

theamk 2y ago
only if you constrain yourself to "violent claim reported to and investigated by police" I've received more harrassment on busses and trains that I've had car incidents, and I've spent much more time in car compared to public transit.
compiler-devel 2y ago
This unhelpful whataboutism doesn’t refute earlier claims in this thread nor does it reinforce any opposite claims. What are you trying to say about the safety of cities here?
- organsnyder 2y ago
  I'm saying that the safety of suburbs is overstated due to the higher number of vehicle miles travelled.
  - jjav 2y ago
    > I'm saying that the safety of suburbs is overstated due to the higher number of vehicle miles travelled. Let's see.. Representing city: traffic fatalities in San Francisco in 2021: 30 [0] Representing suburbia: traffic fatalities in Palo Alto in 2020: 4 [1] (On a quick search I didn't find stats for exact same year, but these are pretty close for a sense of scale.) [0] https://www.sfgov.org/scorecards/transportation/traffic-fatalities https://www.sfgov.org/scorecards/transportation/traffic-fata... [1] https://www.city-data.com/accidents/acc-Palo-Alto-California.html https://www.city-data.com/accidents/acc-Palo-Alto-California...
    - organsnyder 2y ago
      San Francisco population: 808,437 as of 2020 (Wikipedia) Palo Alto population: 68,572 as of 2020 (Wikipedia) Traffic fatalities per capita in San Francisco in 2021: 3.7 / 100,000 Traffic fatalities per capita in Palo Alto in 2020: 5.8 / 100,000 Also, 2020 and 2021 aren't comparable due to the pandemic. Traffic fatalities in the United States increased 10 percent from 2020 to 2021 [0]. [0] https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813509.pdf https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/...
StanislavPetrov 2y ago
Only because many places (like NYC) don't count violent crimes as violent. If a mentally deranged vagrant runs up to you and punches you hard in the face, knocking you to the ground before running off, in NYC that is considered 3rd degree assault - a non-violent misdemeanor. On the rare occasion when this violent lunatic is caught, he is given an appearance ticket and released - non violent misdemeanors like this aren't "bail eligible". In a massive portion of these cases, the prosecutor will simply drop the charges. On the very, very rare occasion when it does go to trial the lunatic is deemed "not fit to stand trial" and simply released back onto the street. In all of these events, this is not recorded as a violent crime, so people with their head in the sand can wave their hands in the air and talk about how there is no violent crime in the city. But the often traumatized person who has been a victim of this violent assault now suffers from the memory of being attacked - more so because they know their attacker faces absolutely no sanction and is back out on the street. People who live in the city and ride the subway are constantly menaced, harassed and/or assaulted and that is an extremely unfriendly and dangerous environment to live in, even if it doesn't show up in the sanitized statistics.