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Not all foreigners in Rome were slaves. Far from it. However, path to becoming a citizen was not easy, and even if you were a citizen your rights were dependent

Not all foreigners in Rome were slaves. Far from it. However, path to becoming a citizen was not easy, and even if you were a citizen your rights were dependent on wealth, sex and reputation. Not that there were no rights for other people. But it was very different from what we've come to expect.

brabel 2y ago
Right, but imagine a bunch of foreigners arriving without any possession. Do you really think they would've been welcomed into society? I think that's just not believable,they would start from the "bottom" which in those times was slavery, if they didn't get killed right away (as it could be quite threatening to see a large number of people coming towards your village, that could be easily mistaken by an invasion).
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  > "bottom" which in those times was slavery Slavery was a legal status. There were plenty of poor laborers with no property in Roman cities..
- roywiggins 2y ago
  "Rome was still an empire of immigrants in those years. Many immigrants advanced their families’ reputations and their own careers by settling inside the Roman Empire’s borders: Franks, Armenians, Vandals, Moors, Ethiopians, and more. Unless conquered and enslaved in war, every man and woman who lived inside the empire’s territorial border held the status of a free person... Being forced to leave one’s home is an ordeal no one should be forced to endure, Plutarch began. Geographical dislocation causes undeniable suffering. Everyone admires how the ancient bards channeled that emotion into their soulful poetry and music, he acknowledged. But, he went on, fortunately hardships are never immutable, and one’s circumstances can often improve... Ambitious foreigners, both men and women, sensed the possibilities. Despite the limitations of not being a citizen, an immigrant to the fourth-century empire could legally go anywhere, work any craft, and be anything." https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/empire-immigrants https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/empire-immigrant...
- riffraff 2y ago
  > Right, but imagine a bunch of foreigners arriving without any possession. Do you really think they would've been welcomed into society that is literally how they were integrated, especially during the empire era. We have records of a bunch of barbarians showing up and the emperor sending them to farm in various areas of the empire. They were not citizens (unless they went in the army) but they were not slaves.
  - brabel 2y ago
    My understanding is that the emperor only allowed other peoples to come into the Empire in large numbers when they made deals with them, usually because they wanted protection against a more ruthless enemy, while the Romans needed more men in their armies, so it was a win-win for both. I had never heard that people could just migrate into the Empire without hassle before, and the would be really surprising to me as it seems to contradict everything I've read about the time.

brabel 2y ago

Right, but imagine a bunch of foreigners arriving without any possession. Do you really think they would've been welcomed into society? I think that's just not believable,they would start from the "bottom" which in those times was slavery, if they didn't get killed right away (as it could be quite threatening to see a large number of people coming towards your village, that could be easily mistaken by an invasion).

ffgjgf1 2y ago
> "bottom" which in those times was slavery Slavery was a legal status. There were plenty of poor laborers with no property in Roman cities..
roywiggins 2y ago
"Rome was still an empire of immigrants in those years. Many immigrants advanced their families’ reputations and their own careers by settling inside the Roman Empire’s borders: Franks, Armenians, Vandals, Moors, Ethiopians, and more. Unless conquered and enslaved in war, every man and woman who lived inside the empire’s territorial border held the status of a free person... Being forced to leave one’s home is an ordeal no one should be forced to endure, Plutarch began. Geographical dislocation causes undeniable suffering. Everyone admires how the ancient bards channeled that emotion into their soulful poetry and music, he acknowledged. But, he went on, fortunately hardships are never immutable, and one’s circumstances can often improve... Ambitious foreigners, both men and women, sensed the possibilities. Despite the limitations of not being a citizen, an immigrant to the fourth-century empire could legally go anywhere, work any craft, and be anything." https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/empire-immigrants https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/empire-immigrant...
riffraff 2y ago
> Right, but imagine a bunch of foreigners arriving without any possession. Do you really think they would've been welcomed into society that is literally how they were integrated, especially during the empire era. We have records of a bunch of barbarians showing up and the emperor sending them to farm in various areas of the empire. They were not citizens (unless they went in the army) but they were not slaves.
- brabel 2y ago
  My understanding is that the emperor only allowed other peoples to come into the Empire in large numbers when they made deals with them, usually because they wanted protection against a more ruthless enemy, while the Romans needed more men in their armies, so it was a win-win for both. I had never heard that people could just migrate into the Empire without hassle before, and the would be really surprising to me as it seems to contradict everything I've read about the time.