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> The problem with Venus cloud cities is: what's the purpose? What are people going to do there? Sit around and write software? Retirement homes. 90% Earth gra

by Qem 2y ago

> The problem with Venus cloud cities is: what's the purpose? What are people going to do there? Sit around and write software? Retirement homes. 90% Earth gravity probably high enough to keep you fit and avoid weightlessness adverse effects, but low enough to help with joint pain, reduced motility and fall risk.

shiroiushi 2y ago
This is actually a pretty good idea I think, aside from the huge cost of course, and possibly the high amount of radiation seniors will experience just traveling to their retirement home in the clouds.
bowsamic 2y ago
Room is not the resource that retired people take up in homes on Earth
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Room is not the resource that retired people take up in homes on Earth Proximity to friends and distance from crime has real value. It’s absolutely classist. But every social system we invent contorts to provide it to its elite.
  - bowsamic 2y ago
    Right but you can just move the poor elderly people to all of the empty space we have on Earth rather than Venus cloud cities
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      It sounds like the big benefit of Venus cloud cities as a retirement destination is the lower (0.9g) gravity, plus possibly distance from problems on Earth, so it wouldn't be a destination for poor elderly people, but rather rich ones (esp. ones who don't care about visiting with family). I imagine it would resemble a giant cruise ship, with luxurious surroundings, plenty of stuff for older people to do, etc. Of course, there would be a very large crew/staff aboard to clean and maintain it and provide services, such as medical care. Salaries for the staff would have to be huge, since they wouldn't be able to go home for years, and gigs on this floating city would probably be contracted fixed-length terms, similar to Saudi Aramco workers, so prices to live in this city would be enormous, making it something only very wealthy retirees could afford. Considering the view would be pretty boring after a while, and the prices astronomical, it's hard to believe that 0.9g gravity would be enough of a draw to make this project economically viable.
      - bowsamic 2y ago
        Distance from Earth seems like a huge downside, not a benefit. Even if our climate goes to shit it will still be far more livable than Venus. So, as you say, there's only one benefit, 0.9g, and is that really enough to justify this entire thing? To be honest it seems like people are clutching at straws to justify space colonisation
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        Distance from Earth would be a benefit in case of nuclear war, which currently looks highly likely at some point. Even if humans aren't eradicated, it would probably be a civilization-ending event, and not many places would be safe. However, it does seem like some kind of giant submarine might be more feasible and cheaper. But yeah, 0.9g doesn't seem like enough of a draw to make it economically feasible.
        bowsamic 2y ago
        > it would probably be a civilization-ending event, and not many places would be safe But you need a civilisation on Earth in order to maintain a Venus cloud city anyway
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        That's absolutely correct I believe. I don't see how such a colony would be self-sustaining without some big advances in technology (at which point you might as well just build a space habitat with low gravity).
        rkagerer 2y ago
        Yeah, but sadly anyplace we can send a bunch of humans to, we can figure out how to send a nuke to as well. And if leaders on the homeworld are crazy enough to turn Earth into a wasteland, I'm not sure how confident I'd be they wouldn't point their threat at your colony (which might look like an enticing bargaining chip).
mulmen 2y ago
> Retirement homes. Ok I love this as a sci-fi premise. Especially as a spiritual successor to Logan’s Run. But how does this actually work? Who cares for these people? Are these retirees the opportunity young caregivers will seek?
- badsectoracula 2y ago
  > Who cares for these people? Robots. I think we're way closer to having robots care for elderly people than having an independent colony on Venus :-P.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  Robots could do some of the care work, but some work will probably still need humans, like repairs and some medical work I would imagine. To do that, the colony would have to hire people to live there, for years at a time or more. Pay would probably need to be very high unless Earth has gotten really, really horrible.

by Qem 2y ago

shiroiushi 2y ago

This is actually a pretty good idea I think, aside from the huge cost of course, and possibly the high amount of radiation seniors will experience just traveling to their retirement home in the clouds.

bowsamic 2y ago

Room is not the resource that retired people take up in homes on Earth

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Room is not the resource that retired people take up in homes on Earth Proximity to friends and distance from crime has real value. It’s absolutely classist. But every social system we invent contorts to provide it to its elite.
- bowsamic 2y ago
  Right but you can just move the poor elderly people to all of the empty space we have on Earth rather than Venus cloud cities
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    It sounds like the big benefit of Venus cloud cities as a retirement destination is the lower (0.9g) gravity, plus possibly distance from problems on Earth, so it wouldn't be a destination for poor elderly people, but rather rich ones (esp. ones who don't care about visiting with family). I imagine it would resemble a giant cruise ship, with luxurious surroundings, plenty of stuff for older people to do, etc. Of course, there would be a very large crew/staff aboard to clean and maintain it and provide services, such as medical care. Salaries for the staff would have to be huge, since they wouldn't be able to go home for years, and gigs on this floating city would probably be contracted fixed-length terms, similar to Saudi Aramco workers, so prices to live in this city would be enormous, making it something only very wealthy retirees could afford. Considering the view would be pretty boring after a while, and the prices astronomical, it's hard to believe that 0.9g gravity would be enough of a draw to make this project economically viable.
    - bowsamic 2y ago
      Distance from Earth seems like a huge downside, not a benefit. Even if our climate goes to shit it will still be far more livable than Venus. So, as you say, there's only one benefit, 0.9g, and is that really enough to justify this entire thing? To be honest it seems like people are clutching at straws to justify space colonisation
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        Distance from Earth would be a benefit in case of nuclear war, which currently looks highly likely at some point. Even if humans aren't eradicated, it would probably be a civilization-ending event, and not many places would be safe. However, it does seem like some kind of giant submarine might be more feasible and cheaper. But yeah, 0.9g doesn't seem like enough of a draw to make it economically feasible.
        bowsamic 2y ago
        > it would probably be a civilization-ending event, and not many places would be safe But you need a civilisation on Earth in order to maintain a Venus cloud city anyway
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        That's absolutely correct I believe. I don't see how such a colony would be self-sustaining without some big advances in technology (at which point you might as well just build a space habitat with low gravity).
        rkagerer 2y ago
        Yeah, but sadly anyplace we can send a bunch of humans to, we can figure out how to send a nuke to as well. And if leaders on the homeworld are crazy enough to turn Earth into a wasteland, I'm not sure how confident I'd be they wouldn't point their threat at your colony (which might look like an enticing bargaining chip).

mulmen 2y ago

> Retirement homes. Ok I love this as a sci-fi premise. Especially as a spiritual successor to Logan’s Run. But how does this actually work? Who cares for these people? Are these retirees the opportunity young caregivers will seek?

badsectoracula 2y ago
> Who cares for these people? Robots. I think we're way closer to having robots care for elderly people than having an independent colony on Venus :-P.
shiroiushi 2y ago
Robots could do some of the care work, but some work will probably still need humans, like repairs and some medical work I would imagine. To do that, the colony would have to hire people to live there, for years at a time or more. Pay would probably need to be very high unless Earth has gotten really, really horrible.