4 ms·

I don't really accept the validity of people who are generally more functional and conventionally successful than average being called "disordered" in the first

I don't really accept the validity of people who are generally more functional and conventionally successful than average being called "disordered" in the first place. It seems like a weird arbitrary insistence of the medical system to simply pathologize anybody who fits into a certain box.

tomrod 2y ago
I'm glad you aren't a, diagnostician with that bias!
WereAllMadHere 2y ago
What about someone who needs a wheelchair but is conveniently successful?
- coffeebeqn 2y ago
  If they seemingly successfully have walked around their entire lives - sure. But this seems like a off analogy
- faeriechangling 2y ago
  Being in a wheelchair is rarely going to be caused by a disorder, also autism is different insofar that the negatives and positives seem to be linked to eachother and are not merely a matter of random circumstance. But practically, the disorder definition above basically would lump the above poster in with somebody who was struggling to hold down a part time job or any social relationships as having the same level of disability. All therapies, treatments, accomidations, etc will end up calibrated for the more profoundly disabled person while being offered to the above poster. Generally, peoples first impression of the person will understandably be based on that of the average person with autism spectrum disorder if they're told they're autistic which will cause them to be pretty profoundly misunderstood. That's just my take on this.
  - lazyasciiart 2y ago
    Your lack of knowledge about the range of treatment options and support available for autism/asperges does not make it true that all therapies, treatments, etc are the same. Your "take" seems to be very strongly held based on what appears to be a very limited set of anecdotal data points.
detourdog 2y ago
The disorder is how they affect their social surroundings. Everyone is on the spectrum and the disordered are having social problems.
- faeriechangling 2y ago
  Yeah but we don't call people disordered for lacking the talents of these gainfully employed autistics, so it seems sort of arbitrary to me.
  - detourdog 2y ago
    I think the behavior is called disordered not the person exhibiting them. Many of the disordered behaviors can be transient.
  - majormajor 2y ago
    But would it be worse for the world if we could actually understand and identify things - and find treatments for - executive function failures like extreme laziness or trouble with timekeeping? Or are the people who fail to hold down a job really just morally bad and of low character? Was it better for people to just be "weird" or "creepy" or "freaks" instead of somewhere on the autism-spectrum? The judgement of the behavior predated the diagnostic labels.
    - faeriechangling 2y ago
      >Was it better for people to just be "weird" or "creepy" or "freaks" instead of somewhere on the autism-spectrum? How has autism diagnosis stopped any of this from happening? People are absolutely unapologetic about calling autistic men creepy in particular.
      - majormajor 2y ago
        > How has autism diagnosis stopped any of this from happening? People are absolutely unapologetic about calling autistic men creepy in particular. It hasn't stopped it completely but now you've got a LOT more resources available to use to do something about it. And there are many more who will say something like "hey, you should look into this stuff" instead of just simply shunning and shaming than there were 40 years ago. Especially when spotted in early childhood. There are no magic bullets. The solution to not being called creepy is, in the end, not acting creepy, same as it ever was. But the diagnostic/psych world can help people find a path to get there. Many of us have been following it for a while now. Do I wish my parents and teachers had known what we know today? Abso-fucking-lutely. Could've started to learn to manage a lot earlier. Recall the context here of the comparison to those "lacking the talents of these gainfully employed autistics". No shortage of bad names to call them either. Many fewer structured and well-studied support systems.

tomrod 2y ago

I'm glad you aren't a, diagnostician with that bias!

WereAllMadHere 2y ago

What about someone who needs a wheelchair but is conveniently successful?

coffeebeqn 2y ago
If they seemingly successfully have walked around their entire lives - sure. But this seems like a off analogy
faeriechangling 2y ago
Being in a wheelchair is rarely going to be caused by a disorder, also autism is different insofar that the negatives and positives seem to be linked to eachother and are not merely a matter of random circumstance. But practically, the disorder definition above basically would lump the above poster in with somebody who was struggling to hold down a part time job or any social relationships as having the same level of disability. All therapies, treatments, accomidations, etc will end up calibrated for the more profoundly disabled person while being offered to the above poster. Generally, peoples first impression of the person will understandably be based on that of the average person with autism spectrum disorder if they're told they're autistic which will cause them to be pretty profoundly misunderstood. That's just my take on this.
- lazyasciiart 2y ago
  Your lack of knowledge about the range of treatment options and support available for autism/asperges does not make it true that all therapies, treatments, etc are the same. Your "take" seems to be very strongly held based on what appears to be a very limited set of anecdotal data points.

detourdog 2y ago

The disorder is how they affect their social surroundings. Everyone is on the spectrum and the disordered are having social problems.

faeriechangling 2y ago
Yeah but we don't call people disordered for lacking the talents of these gainfully employed autistics, so it seems sort of arbitrary to me.
- detourdog 2y ago
  I think the behavior is called disordered not the person exhibiting them. Many of the disordered behaviors can be transient.
- majormajor 2y ago
  But would it be worse for the world if we could actually understand and identify things - and find treatments for - executive function failures like extreme laziness or trouble with timekeeping? Or are the people who fail to hold down a job really just morally bad and of low character? Was it better for people to just be "weird" or "creepy" or "freaks" instead of somewhere on the autism-spectrum? The judgement of the behavior predated the diagnostic labels.
  - faeriechangling 2y ago
    >Was it better for people to just be "weird" or "creepy" or "freaks" instead of somewhere on the autism-spectrum? How has autism diagnosis stopped any of this from happening? People are absolutely unapologetic about calling autistic men creepy in particular.
    - majormajor 2y ago
      > How has autism diagnosis stopped any of this from happening? People are absolutely unapologetic about calling autistic men creepy in particular. It hasn't stopped it completely but now you've got a LOT more resources available to use to do something about it. And there are many more who will say something like "hey, you should look into this stuff" instead of just simply shunning and shaming than there were 40 years ago. Especially when spotted in early childhood. There are no magic bullets. The solution to not being called creepy is, in the end, not acting creepy, same as it ever was. But the diagnostic/psych world can help people find a path to get there. Many of us have been following it for a while now. Do I wish my parents and teachers had known what we know today? Abso-fucking-lutely. Could've started to learn to manage a lot earlier. Recall the context here of the comparison to those "lacking the talents of these gainfully employed autistics". No shortage of bad names to call them either. Many fewer structured and well-studied support systems.