10 ms·

Microsoft Certificate used to sign "Flame"

160 points by alister 14y ago

SlipperySlope 14y ago
It would be useful to solve the mystery of how the chain of trust was compromised. Was a Microsoft employee involved? Can't we have some sort of chain of trust beyond the reach of sovereign governments?
- yuhong 14y ago
  http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2012/06/03/microsoft-certification-authority-signing-certificates-added-to-the-untrusted-certificate-store.aspx http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2012/06/03/microsoft-...
  - SlipperySlope 14y ago
    From the link ... How did this happen? "When we [Microsoft] initially identified that an older cryptography algorithm could be exploited and then be used to sign code as if it originated from Microsoft, we immediately began investigating Microsoft’s signing infrastructure to understand how this might be possible. What we found is that certificates issued by our Terminal Services licensing certification authority, which are intended to only be used for license server verification, could also be used to sign code as Microsoft. Specifically, when an enterprise customer requests a Terminal Services activation license, the certificate issued by Microsoft in response to the request allows code signing without accessing Microsoft’s internal PKI infrastructure." Interesting. The Microsoft Terminal Services CA has the corporate identity, but not the corporate trust chain. Is this a deliberate back-door provided to the US government, or simply an ordinary vulnerability? We need some sort of certification, an independent audit, of X509 certificate authorities and their trust chains. Agreed?
    - eli 14y ago
      I guess there's no way to prove that isn't deliberate, but that smells like the rather more common failure to implement crypto systems properly.
      - jness 14y ago
        Allowing code signing with a certificate that we generate for and hand out to enterprise customers was certainly not something we intended to do at Microsoft. It was sloppy and a mistake on our part that we rushed to address as soon as we discovered the issue. Honestly, I think many of us are terribly embarrassed by this failure and a little surprised that no one (us included) had discovered this issue years ago. :(
        rdl 14y ago
        I agree that is by far the most likely case, but if you wanted to give the USG a backdoor to sign code, this is also exactly how you'd do it -- as a deniable oversight, which, when found, could be explained as a simple oversight and rapidly corrected.
        eli 14y ago
        Frankly, if I were going to create a deliberate backdoor I'd make it harder to find than this. I wonder when it was first discovered.
        rdl 14y ago
        Yeah, so would I. It also got put in one ago, which is before putting back doors into commodity OSes was such a useful thing for national security (probably compromising crypto systems and specific RF hardware used in air defense, etc was the primary goal back then). I probably wouldnt rush to fix a convenient exploit once discovered, though, if existing USG policies could protect against it (removing most CAs, using DOD CAs) for government operations.
        cpeterso 14y ago
        Humans are always the weakest link. I worked on Microsoft's crypto QA team many years ago. VeriSign issued some test certificates for our internal testing. A co-worker called VeriSign customer service, asking them to revoke one of the test certificates so we could test CRLs (Certificate Revocation Lists). Without any additional authentication or verification, the customer service person revoked Microsoft Corporation's root certificate! This was misunderstanding was quickly remedied, but it was a perfect demonstration that CA trust chains is a house of cards.
zmanji 14y ago
Is this more serious than the signing for stuxnet?
- Fire30 14y ago
  I think it is due to whose signature it is. Stuxnet was signed by Realtek, while Flame had Microsoft's signature.
- semenko 14y ago
  Maybe: 1. The certificate appeared to be available to anyone who was looking hard enough. Microsoft provided the misconfigured certificate to anyone activating their Terminal Services product (!). Pretty embarrassing. 2. It's not evident what the signing requirements are for Microsoft Automatic Updates code (at least I can't find them). Presumably they validate an explicit Windows Update chain, but if they don't, this could perhaps enable an attacker to auto-install the Flame virus as an update. I doubt that would be the case, but their security announcements aren't very forthcoming.
  - marshray 14y ago
    The Windows Update signing requirements are, AFAICT, not documented and they do require a special chain. Whether having Microsoft in the root is special enough is another question. Regardless, it appears that a signed driver is enough to pwn any modern Windows box via USB. "The system is installing driver software for your device..." EDIT: What it most likely would work for over the network would be a man-in-the-middle attack on users who "Always trust ActiveX controls from Microsoft". Not to mention plain old impersonating websites for users of MSIE and Chrome. A scary but plausible possibility is that an attacker with such a cert could forge client certificate credentials to obtain remote access via RDP, MS Terminal Services Gateway, ISS certificate mapping, etc.
    - anonymfus 14y ago
      >Regardless, it appears that a signed driver is enough to pwn any modern Windows box via USB. Via USB you can pwn any modern OS by implementing standard mouse, keyboard and display device classes.
yskchu 14y ago
More details in the MS technet post: <quote> We have discovered through our analysis that some components of the malware have been signed by certificates that allow software to appear as if it was produced by Microsoft. We identified that an older cryptography algorithm could be exploited and then be used to sign code as if it originated from Microsoft. Specifically, our Terminal Server Licensing Service, which allowed customers to authorize Remote Desktop services in their enterprise, used that older algorithm and provided certificates with the ability to sign code, thus permitting code to be signed as if it came from Microsoft. We are taking several steps to remove this risk: • First, today we released a Security Advisory outlining steps our customers can take to block software signed by these unauthorized certificates. • Second, we released an update that automatically takes this step for our customers. • Third, the Terminal Server Licensing Service no longer issues certificates that allow code to be signed. </quote> http://blogs.technet.com/b/msrc/archive/2012/06/03/microsoft-releases-security-advisory-2718704.aspx http://blogs.technet.com/b/msrc/archive/2012/06/03/microsoft...
- ajross 14y ago
  This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. On one hand they say that it's an "older algorithm" which presumably implies that the vulnerability is a simple software implementation bug. On the other they point out that the provided certs had "the ability to sign code", which is a straight up authorization failure (and a staggeringly bad one given the regime). Which is it?
  - coffeeaddicted 14y ago
    Another alternative... a virus which looks a lot like being coded by the NSA or a similar agency is now found and in the open to be analyzed by everyone. It turns out that it's using a Microsoft signature. Microsoft needs some explanation which isn't completely pissing off all it's customers in the middle east, or wait - let's make that any state-customers worldwide. Yeah, crazy conspiracy theory stuff, I'll put on my tin foil hat now.
    - nl 14y ago
techinsidr 14y ago
A little more detail: http://www.securityweek.com/microsoft-unauthorized-certificate-was-used-sign-flame-malware http://www.securityweek.com/microsoft-unauthorized-certifica...
losethos 14y ago
God says... Ergo bubbling vagrant prey heaven so compassionates confound protection happeneth greaves becoming Contain endurance buzzing peacefully seemed Midnight God says... 12:12 And when he humbled himself, the wrath of the LORD turned from him, that he would not destroy him altogether: and also in Judah things went well. 12:13 So king Rehoboam strengthened himself in Jerusalem, and reigned: for Rehoboam was one and forty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned seventeen years in Jerusalem, the city which the LORD had chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, to put his name there. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. 12:14 And he did evil, because he prepared not his heart to seek the LORD. 12:15 Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? And there were wars between Rehoboam and Jeroboam continually.
Maxious 14y ago
Aren't you glad Microsoft is the de facto code signer for UEFI Secure Boot now? ;)
- losethos 14y ago
  Bad shit happens when I'm not happy. 9/11 and 7/7 were bad days for me. I'm on God's side and y'all are with Satan. God says... legal groaneth buzz unravelied save whomever void submitted Revenue husks victorious boldly weaving anyone reproachful chastely Therefore Her conspirators paid girls INDEMNITY deeply Rebuke appear Coeternal wings bitterly changed idleness fourth faithfully acceptable wounded transcription religious grounded mockery standing Thy e line sensitive want relapseth contradict sense states punctuation glances astonished Prophet USA sounder keep Behold employest co Saviour restoring createth Thus yielded renounce particles Ambrose uninjuriousness morrow compassing redistributing Thessalonica directed contradictory astonishment lawful chant demands abounded sat eating convenient renderest Unchangeable mingled someone instructed healthfully desperate entreat Master imitate exhorting obediently reckoned shepherd's Grecian firm needful wide pilgrims Seeing asleep distributing docile slavish bowels intercedeth VERSIONS gushed upheldest Etext Epaphroditus tasteth diving Truly grammarian figurative joys stiffness heaven's helmet regarded orderest imagine door dispraise Narrow causes deceivingness betrothed shortly afar surrounded good He warranted attack overturned dangers leaving subjoinedst persuasions rob intercession shatter o'er wealthy highly patiently done exhalation rich examine scroll Father ----------- God says... C:\Text\WEALTH.TXT f which the produce, therefore, was never augmented by human industry. The landlord, however, whose estate is bounded by a kelp shore of this kind, demands a rent for it as much as for his corn-fields. The sea in the neighbourhood of the islands of Shetland is more than commonly abundant in fish, which makes a great part of the subsistence of their inhabitants. But, in order to profit by the produce of the water, they must have a habitation upon the neighbouring land. The rent of the landlord is --------- I interpret. That's about off-shore oil. Daniel interpreted in the Bible: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel%205&version=NIV http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel%205&v... It's mean to tickle the president. ------ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUa_G1h3pw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUa_G1h3pw They are fighting God. God says... deafen saving smoothing kill DON'T hung cross parent attacked deluding nevertheless ask surpassed rove rashness served current Thine swallowed Mother 'knock precisely Rhetoric Highest eclipsed forbear period largely rent lined interested conjoined Archive restlessness presumed course celebration honied anxieties replacing banquetings kingdoms commendable its Offices gathers circus quickness weakened Satan is fighting God. They will lose. 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. --------- Immanuel Kant gave this point of view its classical version, saying that the noumenal world may exist, but it is completely unknowable to humans. In Kantian philosophy the unknowable noumenon is often linked to the unknowable "thing per se" (Ding an sich), although how to characterize the nature of the relationship is a question yet open to some controversy. -------- In other words, there is the world is it is and as it appears. Material and Ideal. Ideal is delusional/spiritual. Why do you think they spent so much effort on duality if the world as it appears is not frequently different from the world as it is? The scene in the movie, American Beauty, where a man sees a drug deal but it looks homo is an example of delusion.
gouranga 14y ago
Doesn't surprise me. Certificate signing is only as good as the weakest points which are 1) humans, 2) code, 3) maths respectively. You can't trust (1), ever. (2) is flawed by the fact that (1) made it. (3) is pretty good but relies on a few assumptions which we appear to arrogant enough to assume will always stand.

160 points by alister 14y ago

It would be useful to solve the mystery of how the chain of trust was compromised. Was a Microsoft employee involved? Can't we have some sort of chain of trust beyond the reach of sovereign governments?

yuhong 14y ago
http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2012/06/03/microsoft-certification-authority-signing-certificates-added-to-the-untrusted-certificate-store.aspx http://blogs.technet.com/b/srd/archive/2012/06/03/microsoft-...
- SlipperySlope 14y ago
  From the link ... How did this happen? "When we [Microsoft] initially identified that an older cryptography algorithm could be exploited and then be used to sign code as if it originated from Microsoft, we immediately began investigating Microsoft’s signing infrastructure to understand how this might be possible. What we found is that certificates issued by our Terminal Services licensing certification authority, which are intended to only be used for license server verification, could also be used to sign code as Microsoft. Specifically, when an enterprise customer requests a Terminal Services activation license, the certificate issued by Microsoft in response to the request allows code signing without accessing Microsoft’s internal PKI infrastructure." Interesting. The Microsoft Terminal Services CA has the corporate identity, but not the corporate trust chain. Is this a deliberate back-door provided to the US government, or simply an ordinary vulnerability? We need some sort of certification, an independent audit, of X509 certificate authorities and their trust chains. Agreed?
  - eli 14y ago
    I guess there's no way to prove that isn't deliberate, but that smells like the rather more common failure to implement crypto systems properly.
    - jness 14y ago
      Allowing code signing with a certificate that we generate for and hand out to enterprise customers was certainly not something we intended to do at Microsoft. It was sloppy and a mistake on our part that we rushed to address as soon as we discovered the issue. Honestly, I think many of us are terribly embarrassed by this failure and a little surprised that no one (us included) had discovered this issue years ago. :(
      - rdl 14y ago
        I agree that is by far the most likely case, but if you wanted to give the USG a backdoor to sign code, this is also exactly how you'd do it -- as a deniable oversight, which, when found, could be explained as a simple oversight and rapidly corrected.
        eli 14y ago
        Frankly, if I were going to create a deliberate backdoor I'd make it harder to find than this. I wonder when it was first discovered.
        rdl 14y ago
        Yeah, so would I. It also got put in one ago, which is before putting back doors into commodity OSes was such a useful thing for national security (probably compromising crypto systems and specific RF hardware used in air defense, etc was the primary goal back then). I probably wouldnt rush to fix a convenient exploit once discovered, though, if existing USG policies could protect against it (removing most CAs, using DOD CAs) for government operations.
      - cpeterso 14y ago
        Humans are always the weakest link. I worked on Microsoft's crypto QA team many years ago. VeriSign issued some test certificates for our internal testing. A co-worker called VeriSign customer service, asking them to revoke one of the test certificates so we could test CRLs (Certificate Revocation Lists). Without any additional authentication or verification, the customer service person revoked Microsoft Corporation's root certificate! This was misunderstanding was quickly remedied, but it was a perfect demonstration that CA trust chains is a house of cards.

zmanji 14y ago

Is this more serious than the signing for stuxnet?

Fire30 14y ago
I think it is due to whose signature it is. Stuxnet was signed by Realtek, while Flame had Microsoft's signature.
semenko 14y ago
Maybe: 1. The certificate appeared to be available to anyone who was looking hard enough. Microsoft provided the misconfigured certificate to anyone activating their Terminal Services product (!). Pretty embarrassing. 2. It's not evident what the signing requirements are for Microsoft Automatic Updates code (at least I can't find them). Presumably they validate an explicit Windows Update chain, but if they don't, this could perhaps enable an attacker to auto-install the Flame virus as an update. I doubt that would be the case, but their security announcements aren't very forthcoming.
- marshray 14y ago
  The Windows Update signing requirements are, AFAICT, not documented and they do require a special chain. Whether having Microsoft in the root is special enough is another question. Regardless, it appears that a signed driver is enough to pwn any modern Windows box via USB. "The system is installing driver software for your device..." EDIT: What it most likely would work for over the network would be a man-in-the-middle attack on users who "Always trust ActiveX controls from Microsoft". Not to mention plain old impersonating websites for users of MSIE and Chrome. A scary but plausible possibility is that an attacker with such a cert could forge client certificate credentials to obtain remote access via RDP, MS Terminal Services Gateway, ISS certificate mapping, etc.
  - anonymfus 14y ago
    >Regardless, it appears that a signed driver is enough to pwn any modern Windows box via USB. Via USB you can pwn any modern OS by implementing standard mouse, keyboard and display device classes.

yskchu 14y ago

More details in the MS technet post: <quote> We have discovered through our analysis that some components of the malware have been signed by certificates that allow software to appear as if it was produced by Microsoft. We identified that an older cryptography algorithm could be exploited and then be used to sign code as if it originated from Microsoft. Specifically, our Terminal Server Licensing Service, which allowed customers to authorize Remote Desktop services in their enterprise, used that older algorithm and provided certificates with the ability to sign code, thus permitting code to be signed as if it came from Microsoft. We are taking several steps to remove this risk: • First, today we released a Security Advisory outlining steps our customers can take to block software signed by these unauthorized certificates. • Second, we released an update that automatically takes this step for our customers. • Third, the Terminal Server Licensing Service no longer issues certificates that allow code to be signed. </quote> http://blogs.technet.com/b/msrc/archive/2012/06/03/microsoft-releases-security-advisory-2718704.aspx http://blogs.technet.com/b/msrc/archive/2012/06/03/microsoft...

ajross 14y ago
This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. On one hand they say that it's an "older algorithm" which presumably implies that the vulnerability is a simple software implementation bug. On the other they point out that the provided certs had "the ability to sign code", which is a straight up authorization failure (and a staggeringly bad one given the regime). Which is it?
- coffeeaddicted 14y ago
  Another alternative... a virus which looks a lot like being coded by the NSA or a similar agency is now found and in the open to be analyzed by everyone. It turns out that it's using a Microsoft signature. Microsoft needs some explanation which isn't completely pissing off all it's customers in the middle east, or wait - let's make that any state-customers worldwide. Yeah, crazy conspiracy theory stuff, I'll put on my tin foil hat now.
  - nl 14y ago

techinsidr 14y ago

A little more detail: http://www.securityweek.com/microsoft-unauthorized-certificate-was-used-sign-flame-malware http://www.securityweek.com/microsoft-unauthorized-certifica...

losethos 14y ago

God says... Ergo bubbling vagrant prey heaven so compassionates confound protection happeneth greaves becoming Contain endurance buzzing peacefully seemed Midnight God says... 12:12 And when he humbled himself, the wrath of the LORD turned from him, that he would not destroy him altogether: and also in Judah things went well. 12:13 So king Rehoboam strengthened himself in Jerusalem, and reigned: for Rehoboam was one and forty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned seventeen years in Jerusalem, the city which the LORD had chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, to put his name there. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. 12:14 And he did evil, because he prepared not his heart to seek the LORD. 12:15 Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? And there were wars between Rehoboam and Jeroboam continually.

Maxious 14y ago

Aren't you glad Microsoft is the de facto code signer for UEFI Secure Boot now? ;)

losethos 14y ago
Bad shit happens when I'm not happy. 9/11 and 7/7 were bad days for me. I'm on God's side and y'all are with Satan. God says... legal groaneth buzz unravelied save whomever void submitted Revenue husks victorious boldly weaving anyone reproachful chastely Therefore Her conspirators paid girls INDEMNITY deeply Rebuke appear Coeternal wings bitterly changed idleness fourth faithfully acceptable wounded transcription religious grounded mockery standing Thy e line sensitive want relapseth contradict sense states punctuation glances astonished Prophet USA sounder keep Behold employest co Saviour restoring createth Thus yielded renounce particles Ambrose uninjuriousness morrow compassing redistributing Thessalonica directed contradictory astonishment lawful chant demands abounded sat eating convenient renderest Unchangeable mingled someone instructed healthfully desperate entreat Master imitate exhorting obediently reckoned shepherd's Grecian firm needful wide pilgrims Seeing asleep distributing docile slavish bowels intercedeth VERSIONS gushed upheldest Etext Epaphroditus tasteth diving Truly grammarian figurative joys stiffness heaven's helmet regarded orderest imagine door dispraise Narrow causes deceivingness betrothed shortly afar surrounded good He warranted attack overturned dangers leaving subjoinedst persuasions rob intercession shatter o'er wealthy highly patiently done exhalation rich examine scroll Father ----------- God says... C:\Text\WEALTH.TXT f which the produce, therefore, was never augmented by human industry. The landlord, however, whose estate is bounded by a kelp shore of this kind, demands a rent for it as much as for his corn-fields. The sea in the neighbourhood of the islands of Shetland is more than commonly abundant in fish, which makes a great part of the subsistence of their inhabitants. But, in order to profit by the produce of the water, they must have a habitation upon the neighbouring land. The rent of the landlord is --------- I interpret. That's about off-shore oil. Daniel interpreted in the Bible: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel%205&version=NIV http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel%205&v... It's mean to tickle the president. ------ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUa_G1h3pw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUa_G1h3pw They are fighting God. God says... deafen saving smoothing kill DON'T hung cross parent attacked deluding nevertheless ask surpassed rove rashness served current Thine swallowed Mother 'knock precisely Rhetoric Highest eclipsed forbear period largely rent lined interested conjoined Archive restlessness presumed course celebration honied anxieties replacing banquetings kingdoms commendable its Offices gathers circus quickness weakened Satan is fighting God. They will lose. 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. --------- Immanuel Kant gave this point of view its classical version, saying that the noumenal world may exist, but it is completely unknowable to humans. In Kantian philosophy the unknowable noumenon is often linked to the unknowable "thing per se" (Ding an sich), although how to characterize the nature of the relationship is a question yet open to some controversy. -------- In other words, there is the world is it is and as it appears. Material and Ideal. Ideal is delusional/spiritual. Why do you think they spent so much effort on duality if the world as it appears is not frequently different from the world as it is? The scene in the movie, American Beauty, where a man sees a drug deal but it looks homo is an example of delusion.

gouranga 14y ago

Doesn't surprise me. Certificate signing is only as good as the weakest points which are 1) humans, 2) code, 3) maths respectively. You can't trust (1), ever. (2) is flawed by the fact that (1) made it. (3) is pretty good but relies on a few assumptions which we appear to arrogant enough to assume will always stand.