4 ms·

> often EU makers compete through JVs So they have to give up IP and control and part of their business to compete. That does not seem fair since China based

> often EU makers compete through JVs So they have to give up IP and control and part of their business to compete. That does not seem fair since China based companies are not forced to do the same. Can you even call them EU anymore? (since china typically requires 51% control to be chinese...)

constantcrying 2y ago
>So they have to give up IP and control and part of their business to compete. They are selling their IP. It is business. >That does not seem fair since China based companies are not forced to do the same. Than maybe the EU can start there? >Can you even call them EU anymore? (since china typically requires 51% control to be chinese...) China does not own 51% of VW.
- adriancr 2y ago
  > China does not own 51% of VW Is VW the JV used to sell in China? > They are selling their IP. It is business. they have no choice if they want to sell in China. Look at Google if you want to see what happens if they refuse. > Than maybe the EU can start there? I think tariffs work just as well and are less complicated. It's not like Chinese companies would accept the same conditions. End result will be the same, decoupling. Long term this is better, more industrial infrastructure in EU serving global market. Less support for Chinese companies if they're limited to home country, less industrial base there to go to war.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    >more industrial infrastructure in EU serving global market What? No EU companies will serve any kind of global market. That is the point of Tarifs. The companies will suffocate and loose any kind of actual global presence.
    - adriancr 2y ago
      > What? No EU companies will serve any kind of global market. That is the point of Tarifs. Thats not how tarriffs work. What will happen is Chinese exports will have to pay tarriffs to enter EU. Most China can do is impose tarriffs or nationalize or whatever within their borders. So less China<->EU trade. More market in EU since China vehicles cant compete. Now... here it becomes nicer. US is also imposing tarriffs on China. All of South east asia+India will impose as well since most are afraid of going to war with them. So, more market where China cannot compete and EU companies can fill gap. As such, tarriffs are good long term, they lose access to X but gain access to 3-5X. They are bad for China since they are suddently overproducing and have nowhere to sell so they have to downsize, earn less, etc... They're also bad for China because if they go after JVs they no longer get access to free IP to steal.
fspeech 2y ago
Your focus on the JVs missed the point that the Chinese JV partners are not the competitive ones in EV. These are state enterprises widely ridiculed in China for clinging to the fat margins of ice cars, getting played by their Western partners with false hopes of technology transfer and now begging for mercy from their ev competitors. They are just as threatened as their Western partners and funnily enough, any measure to protect them from extinction would in turn benefit their Western partners. Look up Byd's new hybrid dm5.0 tech. These, not pure EVs, will likely be the game enders for ice cars in China.

constantcrying 2y ago

>So they have to give up IP and control and part of their business to compete. They are selling their IP. It is business. >That does not seem fair since China based companies are not forced to do the same. Than maybe the EU can start there? >Can you even call them EU anymore? (since china typically requires 51% control to be chinese...) China does not own 51% of VW.

adriancr 2y ago
> China does not own 51% of VW Is VW the JV used to sell in China? > They are selling their IP. It is business. they have no choice if they want to sell in China. Look at Google if you want to see what happens if they refuse. > Than maybe the EU can start there? I think tariffs work just as well and are less complicated. It's not like Chinese companies would accept the same conditions. End result will be the same, decoupling. Long term this is better, more industrial infrastructure in EU serving global market. Less support for Chinese companies if they're limited to home country, less industrial base there to go to war.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >more industrial infrastructure in EU serving global market What? No EU companies will serve any kind of global market. That is the point of Tarifs. The companies will suffocate and loose any kind of actual global presence.
  - adriancr 2y ago
    > What? No EU companies will serve any kind of global market. That is the point of Tarifs. Thats not how tarriffs work. What will happen is Chinese exports will have to pay tarriffs to enter EU. Most China can do is impose tarriffs or nationalize or whatever within their borders. So less China<->EU trade. More market in EU since China vehicles cant compete. Now... here it becomes nicer. US is also imposing tarriffs on China. All of South east asia+India will impose as well since most are afraid of going to war with them. So, more market where China cannot compete and EU companies can fill gap. As such, tarriffs are good long term, they lose access to X but gain access to 3-5X. They are bad for China since they are suddently overproducing and have nowhere to sell so they have to downsize, earn less, etc... They're also bad for China because if they go after JVs they no longer get access to free IP to steal.

fspeech 2y ago

Your focus on the JVs missed the point that the Chinese JV partners are not the competitive ones in EV. These are state enterprises widely ridiculed in China for clinging to the fat margins of ice cars, getting played by their Western partners with false hopes of technology transfer and now begging for mercy from their ev competitors. They are just as threatened as their Western partners and funnily enough, any measure to protect them from extinction would in turn benefit their Western partners. Look up Byd's new hybrid dm5.0 tech. These, not pure EVs, will likely be the game enders for ice cars in China.