4 ms·

Love the candor of the writeup, for example admitting that they are effectively double-dipping. Though I think they are actually triple-dipping or even quadrup

Love the candor of the writeup, for example admitting that they are effectively double-dipping. Though I think they are actually triple-dipping or even quadruple-dipping. 1-2. Net-metering and credits 3. Reduced contribution to infrastructure There are times when their PV setup produces very little or no electricity at all. At those times, they are 100% reliant on the grid to supply them with all their electricity needs. A large part of the cost of electricity supply is the fixed cost of infrastructure, whether used or not, which is paid off by the variable supply of electricity. Since they are 100% reliant on the grid at least some time, they haven't reduced the need for the fixed-cost infrastructure, but have reduced their contribution to that infrastructure. I guess this could be alleviated by capping the amount of electricity you are allowed to take from the grid? 4. Increased variability The addition of variable suppliers like PV reduces grid stability and increases the requirements for and cost of measures to stabilize the grid. Battery backup could obviously alleviate this, but if not done carefully it could just stretch out the destabilizing events and then make those fewer events worse. While I really, really like the idea of rooftop solar, (partial) energy independence, and a more distributed grid, I think we do have to figure these things out. I don't see how it makes sense at the moment.

kkfx 2y ago
> The addition of variable suppliers like PV reduces grid stability True, that's why large p.v. farm should be BANNED not incentivized. But it's the opposite for self-consumption. I self consume (in France, I do not know how that's regulated in USA) meaning I have the interest to do my best shifting loads on p.v. as much as I can, as a result I reduce my total energy consumption from the grid (about 50% per year, being all electric) and much reduce my consumption during peak period when the grid is stressed. I do not reduce my demand only in the coldest part of the winter where the grid is strained due the growing amount of electrical heating but I do reduce to zero in summer where air conditioning demand strain the grid (here nights are fresh so no need to cool artificially at night) witch is a much welcomed thing for the grid. In the future IF battery prices fell here like in China I might also absorb much less for heating, so far batteries are just expensive personal backups. In the future we might add a grid scale data channel to the inverters, like the one we already have (mandatory by law) to allow the grid cutting/regulating EV recharging during peak demand) allowing to inject to the grid only when the grid like it. At the moment p.v. self consumption IMO and IME makes sense both for individuals and for the grid. In the future we can be more integrated, but still the base is the same.
rickydroll 2y ago
It is a good write-up. I partially agree with some of your points. I have some alternatives that I think might be useful. 1-2. I'm not bothered by net metering. I don't think symmetrical metering is appropriate, and the difference between buying and selling price should be used to fund infrastructure contributions. I suspect it'll just get used as dividends for shareholders. 3. That's where a reserve charge would be appropriate. In case I'm using the wrong term, a reserve charge is a fee assessed to pay for excess capacity on the grid in case you cannot provide it yourself. 4. Variability is an important issue. To me, accept the variability of lots of small-scale producers because any one of them going down has a much smaller impact on the grid. A single hailstorm can take out a utility-scale solar installation. If rooftop solar is distributed over a greater geographic region and is much less vulnerable to localized damage. However, I think we're missing an opportunity to improve local power resilience by emphasizing and planning for virtual power plants constructed out of rooftop solar and local batteries. In my perfect world, municipalities would have rooftop solar on every city-owned building where it's practical. There would be multiple battery sites distributed on municipal properties. City residents would be encouraged to put in their own rooftop solar and house batteries to contribute to the virtual power plant run by the municipality. There would still need to be a reserve charge to pay for the grid, distributed among all the municipal residents, and then a usage charge for what they actually consume. We used to have municipal power companies, and some communities around here still do. While they don't generate power, they do a much better job handling lines and restoring service after weather-based outages. We should look to the past to learn how to build a distributed future for renewable energy power systems.

kkfx 2y ago

> The addition of variable suppliers like PV reduces grid stability True, that's why large p.v. farm should be BANNED not incentivized. But it's the opposite for self-consumption. I self consume (in France, I do not know how that's regulated in USA) meaning I have the interest to do my best shifting loads on p.v. as much as I can, as a result I reduce my total energy consumption from the grid (about 50% per year, being all electric) and much reduce my consumption during peak period when the grid is stressed. I do not reduce my demand only in the coldest part of the winter where the grid is strained due the growing amount of electrical heating but I do reduce to zero in summer where air conditioning demand strain the grid (here nights are fresh so no need to cool artificially at night) witch is a much welcomed thing for the grid. In the future IF battery prices fell here like in China I might also absorb much less for heating, so far batteries are just expensive personal backups. In the future we might add a grid scale data channel to the inverters, like the one we already have (mandatory by law) to allow the grid cutting/regulating EV recharging during peak demand) allowing to inject to the grid only when the grid like it. At the moment p.v. self consumption IMO and IME makes sense both for individuals and for the grid. In the future we can be more integrated, but still the base is the same.

rickydroll 2y ago

It is a good write-up. I partially agree with some of your points. I have some alternatives that I think might be useful. 1-2. I'm not bothered by net metering. I don't think symmetrical metering is appropriate, and the difference between buying and selling price should be used to fund infrastructure contributions. I suspect it'll just get used as dividends for shareholders. 3. That's where a reserve charge would be appropriate. In case I'm using the wrong term, a reserve charge is a fee assessed to pay for excess capacity on the grid in case you cannot provide it yourself. 4. Variability is an important issue. To me, accept the variability of lots of small-scale producers because any one of them going down has a much smaller impact on the grid. A single hailstorm can take out a utility-scale solar installation. If rooftop solar is distributed over a greater geographic region and is much less vulnerable to localized damage. However, I think we're missing an opportunity to improve local power resilience by emphasizing and planning for virtual power plants constructed out of rooftop solar and local batteries. In my perfect world, municipalities would have rooftop solar on every city-owned building where it's practical. There would be multiple battery sites distributed on municipal properties. City residents would be encouraged to put in their own rooftop solar and house batteries to contribute to the virtual power plant run by the municipality. There would still need to be a reserve charge to pay for the grid, distributed among all the municipal residents, and then a usage charge for what they actually consume. We used to have municipal power companies, and some communities around here still do. While they don't generate power, they do a much better job handling lines and restoring service after weather-based outages. We should look to the past to learn how to build a distributed future for renewable energy power systems.