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China can afford short term to massively subsidize their auto industry if this means it will completely wreck the local industries in Europe and US. Because onc

China can afford short term to massively subsidize their auto industry if this means it will completely wreck the local industries in Europe and US. Because once an industry is wrecked, it's very expensive to unwreck it.

constantcrying 2y ago
So the response of the EU is to make absolutely sure that EU car makers are wrecked? Instead of fighting back and trying to make ground, the EU makes sure that their own companies loose China as a market.
- ospray 2y ago
  China will never let a foreign company win long term. Targeting the Chinese market is something for next quart not the next ten years.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    I don't think you understand how the Chinese car market works at all. This isn't about VW selling German cars in China. This is about every major car maker having set up large JVs. The distinction between Chinese and EU companies is increasingly blurred.
- buran77 2y ago
  The only thing the EU can do is make sure it keeps the internal market and its players on equal footing. The EU cannot make the rules in China or regulate their market and China rarely plays by any rules anyway, even the ones they ostensibly set. In other words, China has broken trust on every possible occasion so any "ground making" today is worthless tomorrow. How many times would you invest in the hopes of "this time it will work" with a partner who keeps pulling the rug from underneath you every time?
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    >The only thing the EU can do is make sure it keeps the internal market and its players on equal footing. Plainly false. It can do what is doing now, ruining it's local economy or it can fight to make sure EU companies can function from a position of strength. >How many times would you invest in the hopes of "this time it will work" with a partner who keeps pulling the rug from underneath you every time? EU car makers are very successful in China. Every German car maker opposes the Tarifs for that reason.
    - buran77 2y ago
      > EU car makers are very successful in China > I don't think you understand how the Chinese car market works at all [...] This is about every major car maker having set up large JVs. The distinction between Chinese and EU companies is increasingly blurred Both of these quotes are yours. In a feat of extreme cognitive dissonance you can't seem to make up your mind about how that market works. So this and the large volume of your misinformed comments sure starts to sound like trolling to me. There's no "EU manufacturer" in China, there are EU brands and tech, and Chinese-EU JVs. As I said before China has broken trust with every opportunity and even has an internal legal framework to support that. What local EU/US car manufacturers are doing is chasing short term profit because the executives and shareholders want to get it in their lifetimes. Après moi, le déluge. But EU/US interests are far longer term than the average company CEO's term. So "let's make a quick buck for the next decade or two and then realize we're outcompeted to an inconceivable degree" is not an option for anyone who's not looking to completely sabotage their internal economy.
- RivieraKid 2y ago
  Fight back how? The way this works is that Chinese people consume less than what they produce. Extreme example would be that Chinese workers are slaves who only get the food necessary for survival. How do you compete with that strategy? The correct counter-strategy is that all major economies - USA, EU, India, etc. - enact tariffs.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    >How do you compete with that strategy? Make better products, make products faster, make products more efficiently. >The correct counter-strategy is that all major economies - USA, EU, India, etc. - enact tariffs. This just means giving up. And admitting that you can't compete.
    - RivieraKid 2y ago
      But companies already try to make better products and make them more efficiently, because it leads to higher profits. So what exactly would you do to make a European manufacturer competitive with Chinese one, that essentially uses slave labor? Let's say you tell them - cut your costs by 30% or die. They can't do that and they die. What now?
      - constantcrying 2y ago
        >But companies already try to make better products and make them more efficiently, because it leads to higher profits. Maybe, but only competition forces you into innovation. Companies very much like to do things they are already doing, that is easy.
      - lossolo 2y ago
        What are you talking about? Have you seen Xiaomi EV car factory? Most of labor is done by robots. And part of labor that needs to be done by humans can be exported to India where labor is cheaper than China.
        RivieraKid 2y ago

constantcrying 2y ago

So the response of the EU is to make absolutely sure that EU car makers are wrecked? Instead of fighting back and trying to make ground, the EU makes sure that their own companies loose China as a market.

ospray 2y ago
China will never let a foreign company win long term. Targeting the Chinese market is something for next quart not the next ten years.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  I don't think you understand how the Chinese car market works at all. This isn't about VW selling German cars in China. This is about every major car maker having set up large JVs. The distinction between Chinese and EU companies is increasingly blurred.
buran77 2y ago
The only thing the EU can do is make sure it keeps the internal market and its players on equal footing. The EU cannot make the rules in China or regulate their market and China rarely plays by any rules anyway, even the ones they ostensibly set. In other words, China has broken trust on every possible occasion so any "ground making" today is worthless tomorrow. How many times would you invest in the hopes of "this time it will work" with a partner who keeps pulling the rug from underneath you every time?
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >The only thing the EU can do is make sure it keeps the internal market and its players on equal footing. Plainly false. It can do what is doing now, ruining it's local economy or it can fight to make sure EU companies can function from a position of strength. >How many times would you invest in the hopes of "this time it will work" with a partner who keeps pulling the rug from underneath you every time? EU car makers are very successful in China. Every German car maker opposes the Tarifs for that reason.
  - buran77 2y ago
    > EU car makers are very successful in China > I don't think you understand how the Chinese car market works at all [...] This is about every major car maker having set up large JVs. The distinction between Chinese and EU companies is increasingly blurred Both of these quotes are yours. In a feat of extreme cognitive dissonance you can't seem to make up your mind about how that market works. So this and the large volume of your misinformed comments sure starts to sound like trolling to me. There's no "EU manufacturer" in China, there are EU brands and tech, and Chinese-EU JVs. As I said before China has broken trust with every opportunity and even has an internal legal framework to support that. What local EU/US car manufacturers are doing is chasing short term profit because the executives and shareholders want to get it in their lifetimes. Après moi, le déluge. But EU/US interests are far longer term than the average company CEO's term. So "let's make a quick buck for the next decade or two and then realize we're outcompeted to an inconceivable degree" is not an option for anyone who's not looking to completely sabotage their internal economy.
RivieraKid 2y ago
Fight back how? The way this works is that Chinese people consume less than what they produce. Extreme example would be that Chinese workers are slaves who only get the food necessary for survival. How do you compete with that strategy? The correct counter-strategy is that all major economies - USA, EU, India, etc. - enact tariffs.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >How do you compete with that strategy? Make better products, make products faster, make products more efficiently. >The correct counter-strategy is that all major economies - USA, EU, India, etc. - enact tariffs. This just means giving up. And admitting that you can't compete.
  - RivieraKid 2y ago
    But companies already try to make better products and make them more efficiently, because it leads to higher profits. So what exactly would you do to make a European manufacturer competitive with Chinese one, that essentially uses slave labor? Let's say you tell them - cut your costs by 30% or die. They can't do that and they die. What now?
    - constantcrying 2y ago
      >But companies already try to make better products and make them more efficiently, because it leads to higher profits. Maybe, but only competition forces you into innovation. Companies very much like to do things they are already doing, that is easy.
    - lossolo 2y ago
      What are you talking about? Have you seen Xiaomi EV car factory? Most of labor is done by robots. And part of labor that needs to be done by humans can be exported to India where labor is cheaper than China.
      - RivieraKid 2y ago