4 ms·

"In our system, people are actively discouraged..." Who is we? "that's fairly standardised across the Occident. " I'm still thinking across Western countries t

"In our system, people are actively discouraged..." Who is we? "that's fairly standardised across the Occident. " I'm still thinking across Western countries that math lessons in a school are very different.

mnky9800n 2y ago
This will likely turn into a treatise on why the op hasn't fulfilled his mathematical destiny.
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  Please. Someone with a "mathematical destiny" is unlikely to be held back by these obstacles, especially if they have internet access. Probably there are a few such cases, but I very much doubt I'm one of them.
wizzwizz4 2y ago
British, French, German, USian, Canadian, Chinese, probably other places too. The curriculum varies a little (the Canadian and Chinese curricula are quite different), and I'm aware that schools vary, even within a jurisdiction, but there are prevailing attitudes. Discouragement looks like "wow, that's really hard maths!" "maybe you should try something else first," "very impressive, but you should focus on your schoolwork," "quit doodling and pay attention," the library having no books on maths outside the curriculum, getting marked down for using concepts from outside the curriculum in schoolwork… This is completely understandable, for a system that works how ours does. I'm not saying I could run schools any better. I am saying that you wouldn't expect the cultural practices described in the article to have the same outcomes as our schools do.
- snowpid 2y ago
  " British, French, German, USian, Canadian, Chinese, probably other places too. " Can you give any proof for these very very different systems? " the library having no books on maths outside the curriculum, " Where I grow up there have been university books for math and physic at the local library which I read. " getting marked down for using concepts from outside the curriculum in schoolwork… " Many universities in Germany offer courses for high schoolers and I was supported by my teacher to visit them. Also I could present "a proof" ih high school why the e - function's derivate is the e-function. Or an introduction into particle physics. This is only one datapoint but much more than the zeros proof of this thread. My gut feeling of HN says its again American to extrapolate their home grown problems to other parts of the world.
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    Getting books from the big library requires parental cooperation, which is some degree of effort to obtain. Effort I had no reason to go through, for books that I did not know existed: I thought university books could only be found at university libraries. I'm glad your teacher supported you towards actual learning. My teachers supported me, too, as well as they knew how: I got to work from a Year 7 textbook for a few weeks in Year 5, and I got handed a curriculum-restricted calculus textbook when I kept asking why we had to memorise the constant-acceleration equations of motion. Whenever I asked for more, I consistently got told to wait until the next stage of education. We had one lesson where we were given an open-ended problem from outside the curriculum – about balls bouncing around snooker tables – and asked to solve it. This was something I'd worked on before, and while I didn't quite have enough time to write down everything I could, I did get far enough that I got in trouble for being incomprehensible. (They could follow the beginning bit, but then the reading order instructions got too hard to parse. Don't know why: I made sure none of the arrow-lines were parallel for more than half the page, so you could follow them fairly easily with your eyes.) Now let's make our anecdotes fight to the death.
    - snowpid 2y ago
      " Now let's make our anecdotes fight to the death. " Sure. Why do you, dear American, generalise across all Western nations in critic? Can you explain this very particular American trait?
      - wizzwizz4 2y ago
        Considering I'm not American, no I cannot. (I don't think they have a school "Year" system, though I'm not sure.) As for why I generalise across "all Western nations": it's because the problem I describe is present in all the countries I listed, and while I have no information about the others, my theoretical model (incentives due to curriculums and exams) says it's probably present everywhere in this education system that's near-universal amongst… sigh… "Western" countries.
        2y ago

mnky9800n 2y ago

This will likely turn into a treatise on why the op hasn't fulfilled his mathematical destiny.

wizzwizz4 2y ago
Please. Someone with a "mathematical destiny" is unlikely to be held back by these obstacles, especially if they have internet access. Probably there are a few such cases, but I very much doubt I'm one of them.

wizzwizz4 2y ago

British, French, German, USian, Canadian, Chinese, probably other places too. The curriculum varies a little (the Canadian and Chinese curricula are quite different), and I'm aware that schools vary, even within a jurisdiction, but there are prevailing attitudes. Discouragement looks like "wow, that's really hard maths!" "maybe you should try something else first," "very impressive, but you should focus on your schoolwork," "quit doodling and pay attention," the library having no books on maths outside the curriculum, getting marked down for using concepts from outside the curriculum in schoolwork… This is completely understandable, for a system that works how ours does. I'm not saying I could run schools any better. I am saying that you wouldn't expect the cultural practices described in the article to have the same outcomes as our schools do.

snowpid 2y ago
" British, French, German, USian, Canadian, Chinese, probably other places too. " Can you give any proof for these very very different systems? " the library having no books on maths outside the curriculum, " Where I grow up there have been university books for math and physic at the local library which I read. " getting marked down for using concepts from outside the curriculum in schoolwork… " Many universities in Germany offer courses for high schoolers and I was supported by my teacher to visit them. Also I could present "a proof" ih high school why the e - function's derivate is the e-function. Or an introduction into particle physics. This is only one datapoint but much more than the zeros proof of this thread. My gut feeling of HN says its again American to extrapolate their home grown problems to other parts of the world.
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  Getting books from the big library requires parental cooperation, which is some degree of effort to obtain. Effort I had no reason to go through, for books that I did not know existed: I thought university books could only be found at university libraries. I'm glad your teacher supported you towards actual learning. My teachers supported me, too, as well as they knew how: I got to work from a Year 7 textbook for a few weeks in Year 5, and I got handed a curriculum-restricted calculus textbook when I kept asking why we had to memorise the constant-acceleration equations of motion. Whenever I asked for more, I consistently got told to wait until the next stage of education. We had one lesson where we were given an open-ended problem from outside the curriculum – about balls bouncing around snooker tables – and asked to solve it. This was something I'd worked on before, and while I didn't quite have enough time to write down everything I could, I did get far enough that I got in trouble for being incomprehensible. (They could follow the beginning bit, but then the reading order instructions got too hard to parse. Don't know why: I made sure none of the arrow-lines were parallel for more than half the page, so you could follow them fairly easily with your eyes.) Now let's make our anecdotes fight to the death.
  - snowpid 2y ago
    " Now let's make our anecdotes fight to the death. " Sure. Why do you, dear American, generalise across all Western nations in critic? Can you explain this very particular American trait?
    - wizzwizz4 2y ago
      Considering I'm not American, no I cannot. (I don't think they have a school "Year" system, though I'm not sure.) As for why I generalise across "all Western nations": it's because the problem I describe is present in all the countries I listed, and while I have no information about the others, my theoretical model (incentives due to curriculums and exams) says it's probably present everywhere in this education system that's near-universal amongst… sigh… "Western" countries.
      - 2y ago