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>not unlike queer people and the attempts to “fix” them. To be fair, LGBTQ community isn't 'broken.' Some people are inherently gay, lesbian, etc. Deafness _i
by lannisterstark 2y ago
>not unlike queer people and the attempts to “fix” them.
To be fair, LGBTQ community isn't 'broken.' Some people are inherently gay, lesbian, etc.
Deafness _is_ an actual defect. The weird thing that we should not strive to fix human defects when they are truly defects is astounding.
- alexey-salmin 2y agoSome people are inherently deaf, what's the difference?
- Veraticus 2y agoBeing LGBTQ is not a disability or handicap; it’s simply different, like being red-haired or left-handed.
- alexey-salmin 2y agoWhat makes you think that deafness is not the same as being left-handed? I mean objectively, not based on the current cultural norms which will be very different 50 years from now.
- Veraticus 2y ago“Objectively,” left-handed versus right-handed changes nothing about a person’s capabilities in the world, whereas being deaf does. Cultural norms is an interesting comparison. Despite there being no actual difference in capacity, cultural views forced many left-handed people to be right-handed, making those people miserable in the process for no good reason.
- alexey-salmin 2y agoBeing deaf is surely different from not being deaf but you can't objectively say it's a disadvantage. It's only a disadvantage in a world built for not deaf people, like being left-handed is a disadvantage in a world built for right-handed people.
- Veraticus 2y agoI can and did say that. The world is easier for non-deaf people. I can’t imagine even many deaf people would argue against that statement. The correct way to argue against this isn’t to say that “objectively” the world is the same for deaf and non-deaf people; it’s that there’s a culture and language bound up in deafness that don’t deserve to die thanks to medical advances. That is true, and makes treatments like these and what they mean to the deaf community much more complicated and difficult.
- alexey-salmin 2y agoIf dolphins could communicate with us they would surely tell how much easier it is when you have ultrasonic hearing. All humans are therefore disabled and in need of fixing. Or maybe not, if dolphins turn to be wiser than an average human.
- sweezyjeezy 2y agoIf all humans could echo-locate except a subset who couldn't, I would say that group is at a small disadvantage, yes, because the set of things the main group can do is 'objectively' greater. I don't know how relevant it would be for us especially in the daytime, but hey.
- alexey-salmin 2y agoI agree. However, whether all kids should receive gene therapy to develop the echo-location once the science allows for that is a more nuanced question.
- geraldwhen 2y agoIf most buildings lacked light because the vast majority just echolocated, then the those unable would be disabled. It is okay for there to be a normal human experience, and define inability to participate as a disability.
- herbst 2y agoInterestingly enough it was still common to train left handed kids in right handed writing up until maybe 40 years ago as it was seen as some kind of defect obviously.
- rjh29 2y agoYou can't procreate, that sounds like a pretty big difference in capacity?
- Drakim 2y agoGay people can obviously procreate, nothing about your body stops functioning when you are gay. What you mean is that they don't have sexual attraction towards people of an opposite gender, where if they had a relationship with them, that relationship would encourage procreation. To me that just doesn't seem like a "difference in capacity". I personally don't want children, and will probably seek out a partner who likewise does not want children. If I encounter somebody who wants lots of children, I will see that we have different life goals, and I probably won't be very keen on being in a relationship with them. Do you consider me "damaged" or of "diminished capacity" because of it?
- ben_w 2y ago> “Objectively,” left-handed versus right-handed changes nothing about a person’s capabilities in the world, As a leftie, this is only true in the current world — I live in a culture with a left-to-right writing system, and yet technology means I don't ever need to use a fountain or quill pen. I did have one teacher who insisted on "no biro" when I was a kid, but they were also my first introduction to "not everyone is actually nice".
- stahtops 2y agoLet me help explain, some left handed people can hear and are not deaf. Objectively that is how deafness is not the same as being left-handed.
- alexey-salmin 2y agoWell thank you, but the question is why one needs "fixing" and the other doesn't. Parent comment made an argument that being gay is like being left-handed so it doesn't need "fixing". That's fine with me, but I don't see how the same logic doesn't apply to deafness. Many deaf people enjoy their life as it is and don't welcome your attempts to "fix" them.
- stahtops 2y agoI didn’t attempt to “fix” anyone. Everyone has to do that themselves. What about the deaf people that don’t enjoy their life as it is and do welcome the opportunity to hear?
- alexey-salmin 2y ago> What about the deaf people that don’t enjoy their life as it is and do welcome the opportunity to hear? I would be happy if they had such an opportunity. The question, once again, was different: should the hereditary deafness be eradicated in childhood by gene therapy once advances of medicine allow that?
- glenstein 2y agoI think you changed the question and escalated the severity of the proposal so it became easier to knock down as a straw man. Originally this was about the desirability and capability of enabling deaf people to hear writ large. But now you are framing it as full scale eradication carried out in a way that bypasses consent.
- alexey-salmin 2y ago
- geraldwhen 2y agoIf you feel compelled to remove parts of your body and take opposite sex hormones for life, that’s clearly a disability. If genes could fix your brain to not feel compelled to swap sexes, that would be a huge win in the quality of life for most individuals. You can pretend that pretty much anything “isn’t a disability, it’s just different.” But that isn’t true.
- seattle_spring 2y agoYou're focusing pretty hard on a single letter of that acronym that makes up a small percentage of the overall community.