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> Animals sans humans are honest, so there are no betrayals. Ask anybody who has grown up on a farm if any animal is honest. Animals can and do try to fool you

> Animals sans humans are honest, so there are no betrayals. Ask anybody who has grown up on a farm if any animal is honest. Animals can and do try to fool you.

Dalewyn 2y ago
Animals sans humans are honest about fooling you, too. Yes, I appreciate that that sounded very hypocritical but I implore you to give it deeper thought. I hate dealing with humans because 99.999% of them are two-faced or more to varying degrees, animals sans humans are one-faced and thus honest to a fault including being honest about lying.
- qarl 2y ago
  When I put my dog outside in the morning, he'll pretend to poop so that I'll let him in sooner.
- crazygringo 2y ago
  > are honest about fooling you, too... including being honest about lying That doesn't make any sense. "He's a liar, but he's an honest liar." Huh?
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    Animals don't intend nor even attempt to deceive, unlike humans. They have a goal in mind, and they just do whatever presumably achieves that goal sooner. They are honest even if they seem like they are lying. Another way to look at it is a computer throwing out wrong information. The computer doesn't care about deception, it's just honestly doing what it was told with what it knows. Sometimes I wonder if the norm is the world doesn't lie and humans are the major exception. Humans are fucking assholes.
    - crazygringo 2y ago
      > Animals don't intend nor even attempt to deceive, unlike humans. I mean, that's just factually wrong. Animals aren't different at all from humans in that regard. Since you don't seem to have much experience with animals, perhaps you might be interested in one tiny example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo#Brood_parasitism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo#Brood_parasitism The reproductive strategy of cuckoos is based on deceit, quite fundamentally. And humans generally lie to achieve some goal -- humans don't generally tell major lies for no reason at all. And their minor lies often have an emotional reason behind them -- e.g. to avoid offense or avoid conflict or preserve their ego. All that being said, I'm sorry that you've had such terrible experience with other people. If you haven't already, I would definitely suggest exploring talk therapy. It can help you both to figure out how to deal with people, as well as how to identify and find other people who are emotional supportive and beneficial, rather than people who drain and harm you.
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        >The reproductive strategy of cuckoos is based on deceit, quite fundamentally. Is that deception, though? Lying? It might look like deception as far as humans are concerned, but the cuckoos just want other birds to raise their chicks. >I'm sorry that you've had such terrible experience with other people. It's not so much that as it is all humans are two-faced to some degree of non-zero value. Human society is also structured in a way that honest, one-faced people finish dead last. It's tiresome, downright exhausting even when there are no negatives involved. I never so much as have to care about that if I deal with animals, they are honest to a fault including when they "lie". What you see is what you get; animals are a breath of fresh air compared to humans.
hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
Crows are sneakier than a ninja cult leader. They will do anything for a snack and know when humans are watching.

> Animals sans humans are honest, so there are no betrayals. Ask anybody who has grown up on a farm if any animal is honest. Animals can and do try to fool you.

Dalewyn 2y ago

Animals sans humans are honest about fooling you, too. Yes, I appreciate that that sounded very hypocritical but I implore you to give it deeper thought. I hate dealing with humans because 99.999% of them are two-faced or more to varying degrees, animals sans humans are one-faced and thus honest to a fault including being honest about lying.

qarl 2y ago
When I put my dog outside in the morning, he'll pretend to poop so that I'll let him in sooner.
crazygringo 2y ago
> are honest about fooling you, too... including being honest about lying That doesn't make any sense. "He's a liar, but he's an honest liar." Huh?
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  Animals don't intend nor even attempt to deceive, unlike humans. They have a goal in mind, and they just do whatever presumably achieves that goal sooner. They are honest even if they seem like they are lying. Another way to look at it is a computer throwing out wrong information. The computer doesn't care about deception, it's just honestly doing what it was told with what it knows. Sometimes I wonder if the norm is the world doesn't lie and humans are the major exception. Humans are fucking assholes.
  - crazygringo 2y ago
    > Animals don't intend nor even attempt to deceive, unlike humans. I mean, that's just factually wrong. Animals aren't different at all from humans in that regard. Since you don't seem to have much experience with animals, perhaps you might be interested in one tiny example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo#Brood_parasitism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo#Brood_parasitism The reproductive strategy of cuckoos is based on deceit, quite fundamentally. And humans generally lie to achieve some goal -- humans don't generally tell major lies for no reason at all. And their minor lies often have an emotional reason behind them -- e.g. to avoid offense or avoid conflict or preserve their ego. All that being said, I'm sorry that you've had such terrible experience with other people. If you haven't already, I would definitely suggest exploring talk therapy. It can help you both to figure out how to deal with people, as well as how to identify and find other people who are emotional supportive and beneficial, rather than people who drain and harm you.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      >The reproductive strategy of cuckoos is based on deceit, quite fundamentally. Is that deception, though? Lying? It might look like deception as far as humans are concerned, but the cuckoos just want other birds to raise their chicks. >I'm sorry that you've had such terrible experience with other people. It's not so much that as it is all humans are two-faced to some degree of non-zero value. Human society is also structured in a way that honest, one-faced people finish dead last. It's tiresome, downright exhausting even when there are no negatives involved. I never so much as have to care about that if I deal with animals, they are honest to a fault including when they "lie". What you see is what you get; animals are a breath of fresh air compared to humans.

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago

Crows are sneakier than a ninja cult leader. They will do anything for a snack and know when humans are watching.