4 ms·

Very recently, we were complete morons. See page 3: https://research-repository.griffith.edu.au/server/api/core/bitstreams/7027c3d0-886c-52e6-aaba-14c60f6c779

Very recently, we were complete morons. See page 3: https://research-repository.griffith.edu.au/server/api/core/bitstreams/7027c3d0-886c-52e6-aaba-14c60f6c7790/content https://research-repository.griffith.edu.au/server/api/core/...

jowea 2y ago
Wait, how does Christianity makes sense if women have no souls? > Christianity swung between the Augustinian view that women had souls only to have Aquinas take up Aristotle’s position that women were incapable of reason and therefore had no souls > The question of women having Souls was only resolved for the Church in 1950 with the promulgation of “The Assumption of the Virgin Mary into heaven” and the Papal Bull (De munificentissimus Deus 1950) which accompanied the creation of a special feast to commemorate this event
- throwup238 2y ago
  The list of contradictions and logical inconsistencies was so long it took them a while to work their way up to women's souls.
- brightlancer 2y ago
  Neither of those sentences cite a source. The papal bull notes, "our predecessor of immortal memory, Pius IX, solemnly proclaimed the dogma of the loving Mother of God's Immaculate Conception." Pope Pius IX died in 1878. Did he proclaim that Mary was born without sin but she still didn't have a soul? So, how many errors do we have to find in the paper before we just dismiss the paper as nonsense?
- coolsunglasses 2y ago
  This isn't even remotely accurate to Christian belief in either the Catholic or Orthodox churches. There isn't a single church father who believed women didn't have souls, that's facially ludicrous if you know anything about church teaching which means the person writing this did not. Here's a simple example out of many I could draw on: if women didn't have souls they wouldn't be able to receive the sacraments. That means no baptism, no chrismation, no Eucharist, no marriage, no reconciliation, and no extreme unction. It would be metaphysically impossible to be sacramentally married to a woman. C'mon. There would be no need to distinguish between sacramental and natural marriages if women were soulless because they'd be unable to confect the sacrament with their espoused. The misreading of St. Augustine here has to do with a distinction he was making regarding Imago Dei. He pretty clearly believes women and men are spiritually/metaphysically equal, including as it relates to their spiritual dignity deriving from being made in the image and likeness of God. The passage that gets misread has to do with physical nature and its derivation from Imago Dei. I don't think it was a particularly important point and it's not something I've seen repeated elsewhere. This is a notorious enough myth about Christian belief that First Things has a multiple articles addressing it: https://www.firstthings.com/article/1997/04/the-myth-of-soulless-women https://www.firstthings.com/article/1997/04/the-myth-of-soul...
  - arktos_ 2y ago
    You know, for a place as respectable as HN when it comes to internet discourse, it is odd how any commitment to the truth gets thrown off the window when it comes to religions and Christianity specifically...
kybernetikos 2y ago
> There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28 Written by Paul, generally regarded as pretty sexist when it came to women.
pyuser583 2y ago
As someone who spent years studying classical and medieval philosophy, and a few more years studying medieval history, this really pisses me off. I guess astrophysicists have to deal with people who read Steven Hawking and think they’re brilliant physicists. But Hawking is generally right. It’s so insane how serious scholars are allowed to treat this area like it’s crap, ignoring the work done by serious philosophers and historians. I guess I’m a bit sore because one of the most respected faculties of medieval history in America replaced their “Medieval History” courses with “Modern Conceptions of the Middle Ages” - which is the Middle Ages according to Shakespeare , Chaucer, and Tolkien. There’s still good work being done here, but the stupidity is alive and well and being passed off as reality.
- consumer451 2y ago
  I would love to learn. Please share some links.
  - pyuser583 2y ago
    “Civilization in the Middle Ages” by Norman Cantor is a great place to start.

jowea 2y ago

Wait, how does Christianity makes sense if women have no souls? > Christianity swung between the Augustinian view that women had souls only to have Aquinas take up Aristotle’s position that women were incapable of reason and therefore had no souls > The question of women having Souls was only resolved for the Church in 1950 with the promulgation of “The Assumption of the Virgin Mary into heaven” and the Papal Bull (De munificentissimus Deus 1950) which accompanied the creation of a special feast to commemorate this event

throwup238 2y ago
The list of contradictions and logical inconsistencies was so long it took them a while to work their way up to women's souls.
brightlancer 2y ago
Neither of those sentences cite a source. The papal bull notes, "our predecessor of immortal memory, Pius IX, solemnly proclaimed the dogma of the loving Mother of God's Immaculate Conception." Pope Pius IX died in 1878. Did he proclaim that Mary was born without sin but she still didn't have a soul? So, how many errors do we have to find in the paper before we just dismiss the paper as nonsense?
coolsunglasses 2y ago
This isn't even remotely accurate to Christian belief in either the Catholic or Orthodox churches. There isn't a single church father who believed women didn't have souls, that's facially ludicrous if you know anything about church teaching which means the person writing this did not. Here's a simple example out of many I could draw on: if women didn't have souls they wouldn't be able to receive the sacraments. That means no baptism, no chrismation, no Eucharist, no marriage, no reconciliation, and no extreme unction. It would be metaphysically impossible to be sacramentally married to a woman. C'mon. There would be no need to distinguish between sacramental and natural marriages if women were soulless because they'd be unable to confect the sacrament with their espoused. The misreading of St. Augustine here has to do with a distinction he was making regarding Imago Dei. He pretty clearly believes women and men are spiritually/metaphysically equal, including as it relates to their spiritual dignity deriving from being made in the image and likeness of God. The passage that gets misread has to do with physical nature and its derivation from Imago Dei. I don't think it was a particularly important point and it's not something I've seen repeated elsewhere. This is a notorious enough myth about Christian belief that First Things has a multiple articles addressing it: https://www.firstthings.com/article/1997/04/the-myth-of-soulless-women https://www.firstthings.com/article/1997/04/the-myth-of-soul...
- arktos_ 2y ago
  You know, for a place as respectable as HN when it comes to internet discourse, it is odd how any commitment to the truth gets thrown off the window when it comes to religions and Christianity specifically...

kybernetikos 2y ago

> There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28 Written by Paul, generally regarded as pretty sexist when it came to women.

pyuser583 2y ago

As someone who spent years studying classical and medieval philosophy, and a few more years studying medieval history, this really pisses me off. I guess astrophysicists have to deal with people who read Steven Hawking and think they’re brilliant physicists. But Hawking is generally right. It’s so insane how serious scholars are allowed to treat this area like it’s crap, ignoring the work done by serious philosophers and historians. I guess I’m a bit sore because one of the most respected faculties of medieval history in America replaced their “Medieval History” courses with “Modern Conceptions of the Middle Ages” - which is the Middle Ages according to Shakespeare , Chaucer, and Tolkien. There’s still good work being done here, but the stupidity is alive and well and being passed off as reality.

consumer451 2y ago
I would love to learn. Please share some links.
- pyuser583 2y ago
  “Civilization in the Middle Ages” by Norman Cantor is a great place to start.