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In a lot of states, yes, a doctor is putting their license, financial future and even their freedom at risk if they believe that a pregnancy needs to be termina

In a lot of states, yes, a doctor is putting their license, financial future and even their freedom at risk if they believe that a pregnancy needs to be terminated for the life or health of the person carrying it, but some activist DA or judge disagrees.

AmericanChopper 2y ago
I would want to see sources before taking a comment like this seriously. I used to live in one of the most regressive Islamic countries in the world (where abortion was absolutely not allowed), and my wife had zero issues aborting a pregnancy when it was found to be threatening her health. It was done within hours and without a single moment of controversy. Do you have any case law to support this being a valid concern?
- defrost 2y ago
  All the US states with abortion bans do have exceptions to save the life of the mother. The particular issue is that currently it's an actual legal minefield for doctors in a number of those states due to vague definitions, over zealous prosecutors, and relatively tight time limits. This article: https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/ https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-revie... appears to give a good overview of the state of affairs. For now at least the real danger is doctors being unwilling to risk their licence and making borderline calls in many situations with a ticking clock.
  - AmericanChopper 2y ago
    The permissible exceptions seem pretty clear to me. The claim that this is a “legal minefield” is one that should be substantiated. If that were true you should at least be able to provide a reference to a controversial prosecution.
    - defrost 2y ago
      The claim is made in the brief linked. > at least be able to provide a reference to a controversial prosecution. Why? This is all relatively recent changes, there are doctors on record saying they've been unwilling to perform abortions for a variety of reasons and at risk of the mothers health. That doesn't at all imply the necessity for the existence of a prosecution - but it does woman's health is suffering due to fear of prosecution.
      - AmericanChopper 2y ago
        An equally likely explanation is that these doctors are simply grandstanding and using the opportunity to stoke some moral panic. This is one of the most divisive political issues in the country, and the link you posted would support the claim that “some doctors are passionately unhappy about the change”. But if you want to claim that it’s a “legal minefield” then you should be able to offer some proof. As far as I know there have been zero controversial prosecutions resulting from this change, so all you’ve managed to provide is somebody’s speculation that it might turn into a legal hazard at some time in the future. Given how massively politicised this issue is, I think it would be pretty stupid to just accept people’s baseless speculations as fact.
        defrost 2y ago
        > But if you want to claim that it’s a “legal minefield” then you should be able to offer some proof. The claim is made in the brief linked. I am not one of the authors of the brief linked. > As far as I know there have been zero controversial prosecutions resulting from this change Which proves nothing with respect to the matter of Doctors stating they've been unwilling to risk prosecution.
        b112 2y ago
        Going to have to jump in here, defrost. You did indeed claim it is a "legal minefield", only later to say "Well, actually, I meant this single, one paper claims that." Hyperbole is what this paper likely is engaging in. It's certainly presenting a "worst case scenario" examination. And even if not, it's only presenting possible issues. Issues which may or may not come up, and all of these states have differing legislation.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  Sample size of 1. Did you do it legally? Could your wife do it alone without her male guardian forcing the issue? How do you know doctor's chances to get in trouble did not dramatically increase after?
  - AmericanChopper 2y ago
    > Yes, at one of the largest hospitals in the country. > She discovered the issue and had the procedure scheduled before I even arrived at the hospital. > Because this is a routine medical procedure in every country that has any sort of healthcare system.
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      OK, that's a data point.

AmericanChopper 2y ago

I would want to see sources before taking a comment like this seriously. I used to live in one of the most regressive Islamic countries in the world (where abortion was absolutely not allowed), and my wife had zero issues aborting a pregnancy when it was found to be threatening her health. It was done within hours and without a single moment of controversy. Do you have any case law to support this being a valid concern?

defrost 2y ago
All the US states with abortion bans do have exceptions to save the life of the mother. The particular issue is that currently it's an actual legal minefield for doctors in a number of those states due to vague definitions, over zealous prosecutors, and relatively tight time limits. This article: https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state-abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/ https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-revie... appears to give a good overview of the state of affairs. For now at least the real danger is doctors being unwilling to risk their licence and making borderline calls in many situations with a ticking clock.
- AmericanChopper 2y ago
  The permissible exceptions seem pretty clear to me. The claim that this is a “legal minefield” is one that should be substantiated. If that were true you should at least be able to provide a reference to a controversial prosecution.
  - defrost 2y ago
    The claim is made in the brief linked. > at least be able to provide a reference to a controversial prosecution. Why? This is all relatively recent changes, there are doctors on record saying they've been unwilling to perform abortions for a variety of reasons and at risk of the mothers health. That doesn't at all imply the necessity for the existence of a prosecution - but it does woman's health is suffering due to fear of prosecution.
    - AmericanChopper 2y ago
      An equally likely explanation is that these doctors are simply grandstanding and using the opportunity to stoke some moral panic. This is one of the most divisive political issues in the country, and the link you posted would support the claim that “some doctors are passionately unhappy about the change”. But if you want to claim that it’s a “legal minefield” then you should be able to offer some proof. As far as I know there have been zero controversial prosecutions resulting from this change, so all you’ve managed to provide is somebody’s speculation that it might turn into a legal hazard at some time in the future. Given how massively politicised this issue is, I think it would be pretty stupid to just accept people’s baseless speculations as fact.
      - defrost 2y ago
        > But if you want to claim that it’s a “legal minefield” then you should be able to offer some proof. The claim is made in the brief linked. I am not one of the authors of the brief linked. > As far as I know there have been zero controversial prosecutions resulting from this change Which proves nothing with respect to the matter of Doctors stating they've been unwilling to risk prosecution.
        b112 2y ago
        Going to have to jump in here, defrost. You did indeed claim it is a "legal minefield", only later to say "Well, actually, I meant this single, one paper claims that." Hyperbole is what this paper likely is engaging in. It's certainly presenting a "worst case scenario" examination. And even if not, it's only presenting possible issues. Issues which may or may not come up, and all of these states have differing legislation.
throwaway290 2y ago
Sample size of 1. Did you do it legally? Could your wife do it alone without her male guardian forcing the issue? How do you know doctor's chances to get in trouble did not dramatically increase after?
- AmericanChopper 2y ago
  > Yes, at one of the largest hospitals in the country. > She discovered the issue and had the procedure scheduled before I even arrived at the hospital. > Because this is a routine medical procedure in every country that has any sort of healthcare system.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    OK, that's a data point.