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I was interested in that article’s claim as a 8% rise in a year seems high. Looking at the data, the UK rate has been decreasing overtime but has plateaued in

I was interested in that article’s claim as a 8% rise in a year seems high. Looking at the data, the UK rate has been decreasing overtime but has plateaued in recent years and slight fluctuations could be noise. For most of the past 6 decades it has been decreasing steadily but at a decreasing rate. It also appears different countries count infant mortality differently. Some have cut offs where they consider the live birth to be a still birth for reporting purposes. So it’s not a apples to apples comparison between countries. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN?end=2022&locations=GB&start=1960&view=chart https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN?end=2022... On a side note, a friend of mine is a neonatal intensive care doctor. The majority of the infants they care for have issues due to heavy drug use during pregnancy. So at least in my country this has a large impact on infant mortality.

Dalewyn 2y ago
>The majority of the infants they care for have issues due to heavy drug use during pregnancy. Is there any reason why that shouldn't be (or isn't?) prosecuted under child abuse and/or neglect? I'm all for people doing whatever the fuck they want within the confines of the law they reside in, but that buck stops where the human rights of another begins.
- lukan 2y ago
  It is. And children are taken away. The problem is, the state alternative to parenting is not working problem free either. My mother worked in that area(in germany), so I have some insight and can say, in many instances, the children had better circumstances with their junkie parents, than being dragged through foster homes. Siblings torn apart without warning etc. What most junkie parents need is practical help, so they can have a rehab, not prosecution.
  - brabel 2y ago
    How are the children affected by drugs during pregnancy over the long term? Do they suffer mental or physical disabilities as they grow up?
    - lukan 2y ago
      It is definitely a bad influence. Crystal meth is the favourite around here and especially in combination with alcohol it is pure poison. But it is hard to tell in hindsight, how a children would have grown up different. I know some, who turned out quite well, despite all this. You couldn't tell by the looks and behavior that their mother was drugged at birth (and before and after). Much more important are stable social conditions. A junkie mother who loves her children and is there for them at least some of the time is way better than no mother and just distant social case workers to whom the children are just a job. (Some are doing a great job with love, but they ain't the majority around here) But there definitely also are cases of disabilites, that are very likely drug induced.
- vasco 2y ago
  Here's a good review with nuances: https://www.britishjournalofmidwifery.com/content/legal/should-alcohol-abuse-in-pregnancy-entail-criminal-liability/ https://www.britishjournalofmidwifery.com/content/legal/shou... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5151516/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5151516/ I like this take: > Viewing these cases as potential criminal offences will do nothing for the health of women and their babies. There is a strong public interest in promoting the good health of pregnant women and babies, but, as longstanding government policy recognises, this interest is best served by treating addiction and substance abuse in pregnancy as a public health, not criminal issue. Another aspect I'm almost sure affects babies is alcohol / drug use by either parent prior to conception. In the months prior if the father or mother consume drugs, you will have a negative impact on your child, and nobody gets prosecuted, because nobody can tell you're 10% dumber or 15% more anxious for your whole life due to it.
  - gibolt 2y ago
    There are probably a decent number that also continue well into a pregnancy, without realizing they are.
WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
> I was interested in that article’s claim as a 8% rise in a year seems high. It's all in the framing. Between 2000 and 2017, the global maternal mortality rate fell by 38%. In low-income countries, the decline was more dramatic still, with a reduction of 46%. They used the lagging gains that finally arrived in lower income countries to boost overall stats - and thereby avoided discussing trends in high income countries. And lagging trends between poorer and richer countries is still a thing. Having hit their possible peaks, poorer countries should continue to follow wealthy countries and plateau next. If they follow (growing) western trends to unwind programs that bring healthcare to the poor, a reduction in healthy birthrates seems inevitable.

Dalewyn 2y ago

>The majority of the infants they care for have issues due to heavy drug use during pregnancy. Is there any reason why that shouldn't be (or isn't?) prosecuted under child abuse and/or neglect? I'm all for people doing whatever the fuck they want within the confines of the law they reside in, but that buck stops where the human rights of another begins.

lukan 2y ago
It is. And children are taken away. The problem is, the state alternative to parenting is not working problem free either. My mother worked in that area(in germany), so I have some insight and can say, in many instances, the children had better circumstances with their junkie parents, than being dragged through foster homes. Siblings torn apart without warning etc. What most junkie parents need is practical help, so they can have a rehab, not prosecution.
- brabel 2y ago
  How are the children affected by drugs during pregnancy over the long term? Do they suffer mental or physical disabilities as they grow up?
  - lukan 2y ago
    It is definitely a bad influence. Crystal meth is the favourite around here and especially in combination with alcohol it is pure poison. But it is hard to tell in hindsight, how a children would have grown up different. I know some, who turned out quite well, despite all this. You couldn't tell by the looks and behavior that their mother was drugged at birth (and before and after). Much more important are stable social conditions. A junkie mother who loves her children and is there for them at least some of the time is way better than no mother and just distant social case workers to whom the children are just a job. (Some are doing a great job with love, but they ain't the majority around here) But there definitely also are cases of disabilites, that are very likely drug induced.
vasco 2y ago
Here's a good review with nuances: https://www.britishjournalofmidwifery.com/content/legal/should-alcohol-abuse-in-pregnancy-entail-criminal-liability/ https://www.britishjournalofmidwifery.com/content/legal/shou... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5151516/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5151516/ I like this take: > Viewing these cases as potential criminal offences will do nothing for the health of women and their babies. There is a strong public interest in promoting the good health of pregnant women and babies, but, as longstanding government policy recognises, this interest is best served by treating addiction and substance abuse in pregnancy as a public health, not criminal issue. Another aspect I'm almost sure affects babies is alcohol / drug use by either parent prior to conception. In the months prior if the father or mother consume drugs, you will have a negative impact on your child, and nobody gets prosecuted, because nobody can tell you're 10% dumber or 15% more anxious for your whole life due to it.
- gibolt 2y ago
  There are probably a decent number that also continue well into a pregnancy, without realizing they are.

WarOnPrivacy 2y ago

> I was interested in that article’s claim as a 8% rise in a year seems high. It's all in the framing. Between 2000 and 2017, the global maternal mortality rate fell by 38%. In low-income countries, the decline was more dramatic still, with a reduction of 46%. They used the lagging gains that finally arrived in lower income countries to boost overall stats - and thereby avoided discussing trends in high income countries. And lagging trends between poorer and richer countries is still a thing. Having hit their possible peaks, poorer countries should continue to follow wealthy countries and plateau next. If they follow (growing) western trends to unwind programs that bring healthcare to the poor, a reduction in healthy birthrates seems inevitable.