5 ms·

It looks like during last year's heat wave, California FINALLY broke its previous all-time peak load of 50,270mW in 24 July 2006, with a whopping 52,061mW on 6

by rconti 2y ago

It looks like during last year's heat wave, California FINALLY broke its previous all-time peak load of 50,270mW in 24 July 2006, with a whopping 52,061mW on 6 September 2023. Still, peak usage year over year looks flat to my eyes. I'm sure we can't keep time-shifting and efficiency engineering ourselves out of a fundamental need for more total energy for a huge % of EVs and the push to phase out natural gas, but it might do most of the work for us. All big power hogs are getting more efficient. Electric cars can charge "whenever", but I imagine a future where just spreading the EV load between 11pm and 6am is no longer enough. Plus, we need more energy storage or non-solar) sources to handle the fact that loads are going to increasingly move to the overnight hours. https://www.caiso.com/documents/californiaisopeakloadhistory.pdf https://www.caiso.com/documents/californiaisopeakloadhistory...

nmeagent 2y ago
It's pretty clear from the context what units you intended to use and I kind of hate to be 'that guy', but just FYI: mW -> milliwatt, MW -> megawatt.
teaearlgraycold 2y ago
California has lots of problems, but availability of money is not one of them. I have no worries whatsoever about our ability to properly handle changes in demand going forward. Will a bunch of money get wasted and mis-managed? Of course. It wouldn't be CA if we didn't do that! But we'll still grow just fine.
- jart 2y ago
  How dare you use the word "we" to lump us in with our corrupt policymakers. Just because we're exploited and victimized by a parasite, doesn't make us one.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Unless you're in jail for tax evasion or making below what you're worth (which; your reputation precedes you, you definitely are) which means you're not meeting your earning potential, which is a failure of the economic-maximalizing society you live under, you're complicit. (email in profile, apparently this thread has been marked by HN already)
PontifexMinimus 2y ago
52 W is not a particularly high peak load.
- esalman 2y ago
  52 giga watts.
  - LoganDark 2y ago
    That's almost 43 DeLorean trips... Impressive...
r00fus 2y ago
These days with even off-peak being 40-80c / kWh the best way to charge EVs (which are mostly owned by homeowners) seems to be to bypass the grid and charge using rooftop solar during the middle of the day (or time shifted using battery storage). Obv. not possible for renters or condo owners or for people who can install solar.
- esalman 2y ago
  > Obv. not possible for renters or condo owners or for people who can install solar. That can be as much as 67% or more of the households in large Metro areas. This is really why I think EV adoption is a pipe dream. It is probably a boon for the grid as well.
  - r00fus 2y ago
    65-70% of all dwellings are single-family homes. So most will be eligible for EVs. I couldn’t actually believe it but I guess the default state of the vast majority of the country is sprawl.
- tedivm 2y ago
  Where do you live with power costs that high? My power is about 11c/kWh (Chicago).
  - selectodude 2y ago
    Chicago has some of the cheapest electricity in the world. Thanks comed for building all the nukes.
    - ryanwaggoner 2y ago
      What? Lots of states have cheaper rates than that: https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/ https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/ And none of them are anywhere near 40-80c, so maybe that commenter is in another country.
smeej 2y ago
I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from what she told me is that one of its biggest hurdles is that it can't adjust up and down for demand very well. If you want to meet peak demand, you end up massively overproducing the rest of the time. If you have the batteries available, by all means, store it, but if you don't, bitcoin mining rigs can very easily be turned on and off in whatever numbers you need to balance out the demand, or at least smooth it out enough that the nuclear production can handle the remaining fluctuation. It's a different problem, trying to match energy production that would prefer to be constant with demand that fluctuates, as opposed to trying to match fluctuating production with fluctuating demand, but I think of it almost like a "battery" that stores the "energy" as money rather than directly. Like, when the demand drops, earn whatever bitcoin you can with the miners so you can keep it cost effective to run nuclear and you're not having to turn to supplemental, higher cost, less clean energy sources in times of peak demand.
- esalman 2y ago
  Surely there are more useful avenues for harnessing excess energy than mining Bitcoins?
  - ihsw 2y ago
    [dead]
  - XorNot 2y ago
    I mean this is where pumped hydro would be pretty handy actually. Pumped hydro can't charge as fast as batteries, but can have enormous energy capacity. You could almost certainly tune a pumped hydro installation to absorb the ramp of a reactor cycling up and down, but you'd lose the risk of running dry due to renewable unpredictability.
    - 2y ago
outside1234 2y ago
There is a ton of solar behind the meter that I suspect is helping as well. I only plug my car in - and with slow charging - when it is sunny such that my EV’s load basically never hits the grid.

by rconti 2y ago

nmeagent 2y ago

It's pretty clear from the context what units you intended to use and I kind of hate to be 'that guy', but just FYI: mW -> milliwatt, MW -> megawatt.

teaearlgraycold 2y ago

California has lots of problems, but availability of money is not one of them. I have no worries whatsoever about our ability to properly handle changes in demand going forward. Will a bunch of money get wasted and mis-managed? Of course. It wouldn't be CA if we didn't do that! But we'll still grow just fine.

jart 2y ago
How dare you use the word "we" to lump us in with our corrupt policymakers. Just because we're exploited and victimized by a parasite, doesn't make us one.
- fragmede 2y ago
  Unless you're in jail for tax evasion or making below what you're worth (which; your reputation precedes you, you definitely are) which means you're not meeting your earning potential, which is a failure of the economic-maximalizing society you live under, you're complicit. (email in profile, apparently this thread has been marked by HN already)

PontifexMinimus 2y ago

52 W is not a particularly high peak load.

esalman 2y ago
52 giga watts.
- LoganDark 2y ago
  That's almost 43 DeLorean trips... Impressive...

r00fus 2y ago

These days with even off-peak being 40-80c / kWh the best way to charge EVs (which are mostly owned by homeowners) seems to be to bypass the grid and charge using rooftop solar during the middle of the day (or time shifted using battery storage). Obv. not possible for renters or condo owners or for people who can install solar.

esalman 2y ago
> Obv. not possible for renters or condo owners or for people who can install solar. That can be as much as 67% or more of the households in large Metro areas. This is really why I think EV adoption is a pipe dream. It is probably a boon for the grid as well.
- r00fus 2y ago
  65-70% of all dwellings are single-family homes. So most will be eligible for EVs. I couldn’t actually believe it but I guess the default state of the vast majority of the country is sprawl.
tedivm 2y ago
Where do you live with power costs that high? My power is about 11c/kWh (Chicago).
- selectodude 2y ago
  Chicago has some of the cheapest electricity in the world. Thanks comed for building all the nukes.
  - ryanwaggoner 2y ago
    What? Lots of states have cheaper rates than that: https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/ https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/ And none of them are anywhere near 40-80c, so maybe that commenter is in another country.

smeej 2y ago

I know the topic is anathema on HN, but a personal friend of mine was working with people in New Hampshire to help make the nuclear power plant a better solution for the regional power needs by equipping it with bitcoin miners that can be turned on and off algorithmically to deal with the fluctuations in demand. I know next to nothing about nuclear energy (or most other kinds of energy), but what I understand from what she told me is that one of its biggest hurdles is that it can't adjust up and down for demand very well. If you want to meet peak demand, you end up massively overproducing the rest of the time. If you have the batteries available, by all means, store it, but if you don't, bitcoin mining rigs can very easily be turned on and off in whatever numbers you need to balance out the demand, or at least smooth it out enough that the nuclear production can handle the remaining fluctuation. It's a different problem, trying to match energy production that would prefer to be constant with demand that fluctuates, as opposed to trying to match fluctuating production with fluctuating demand, but I think of it almost like a "battery" that stores the "energy" as money rather than directly. Like, when the demand drops, earn whatever bitcoin you can with the miners so you can keep it cost effective to run nuclear and you're not having to turn to supplemental, higher cost, less clean energy sources in times of peak demand.

esalman 2y ago
Surely there are more useful avenues for harnessing excess energy than mining Bitcoins?
- ihsw 2y ago
  [dead]
- XorNot 2y ago
  I mean this is where pumped hydro would be pretty handy actually. Pumped hydro can't charge as fast as batteries, but can have enormous energy capacity. You could almost certainly tune a pumped hydro installation to absorb the ramp of a reactor cycling up and down, but you'd lose the risk of running dry due to renewable unpredictability.
  - 2y ago

outside1234 2y ago

There is a ton of solar behind the meter that I suspect is helping as well. I only plug my car in - and with slow charging - when it is sunny such that my EV’s load basically never hits the grid.