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"More doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette" This is like asking "is a hammer healthy?" Alcohol is a tool. It evolved alongside humans as human social

by dluan 2y ago

"More doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette" This is like asking "is a hammer healthy?" Alcohol is a tool. It evolved alongside humans as human social needs changed, like kava in a circle of elders or tobacco in a peace/war pipe, or wormwood left to soak in wine made by Spanish priests as a catchall for ailments. "No bus usage is healthy", "some social media scrolling is recommended per day", "FDA recommends 1 dose of powersaws" - these kinds of pronouncements fail to understand how alcohol came about.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
Alcohol tolerance probably evolved for survival since fruit ferments as it ages. Doubtful social needs were a big factor in that evolution, especially since plenty of humans still lack the ability to metabolize it. I would agree though that some studies and their conclusions are garbage. That doesn't mean science cannot be advanced by better studies and experiments.
- dluan 2y ago
  It is a tool with many uses. Sailors and early pioneers who couldn't carry water for long distances used ale to to stay hydrated. The same sailors were given a daily tot of rum to maintain morale. Many medicinal compounds and molecules are only soluble in ethanol, and so many early medicines resemble amaro decoctions that people still drink recreationally today. These medical uses convergently evolved across cultures and geographies. Doing business or politics over wine or shochu was useful because alcohol removes social inhibitions that would otherwise hide things in negotiations. It's also just an important way to preserve calories of harvested fruits and grains that would otherwise spoil, which is why in some places it was used as currency in place of gold.
  - vintermann 2y ago
    > alcohol removes social inhibitions It does not unless you've learned that it does. There are lots of really old (but still perfectly valid) placebo studies on this.
ruraljuror 2y ago
Sure. It's a tool that makes you worse at most things and poisons your body when you drink it, but has proven effective at date rape. It has evolved? I will grant that humans have a complex history with it, but you are mischaracterizing an unhealthy and dangerous drug.
9dev 2y ago
How alcohol came about it entirely irrelevant when discussing effects on society and recommendations on consumption. A hammer that, when you use it on a certain, individual, previously unknown, amount of nails, will nefariously and permanently influence your brain to nudge you to use a hammer more often, even when you would actually need any other kind of tool; that is not a hammer I would recommend anyone to use. Alcohol has all kinds of complex and negative interactions with people. It makes young people more violent and reckless, for example; it is used to lessen the pain of psychological issues and sadness, to the users detriment; it causes people to say and do things they regret later. Sure, it also loosens you up, which can help some time, but characterising alcohol as a tool is at best a gross mischaracterisation and at worst self deception.

by dluan 2y ago

paulryanrogers 2y ago

Alcohol tolerance probably evolved for survival since fruit ferments as it ages. Doubtful social needs were a big factor in that evolution, especially since plenty of humans still lack the ability to metabolize it. I would agree though that some studies and their conclusions are garbage. That doesn't mean science cannot be advanced by better studies and experiments.

dluan 2y ago
It is a tool with many uses. Sailors and early pioneers who couldn't carry water for long distances used ale to to stay hydrated. The same sailors were given a daily tot of rum to maintain morale. Many medicinal compounds and molecules are only soluble in ethanol, and so many early medicines resemble amaro decoctions that people still drink recreationally today. These medical uses convergently evolved across cultures and geographies. Doing business or politics over wine or shochu was useful because alcohol removes social inhibitions that would otherwise hide things in negotiations. It's also just an important way to preserve calories of harvested fruits and grains that would otherwise spoil, which is why in some places it was used as currency in place of gold.
- vintermann 2y ago
  > alcohol removes social inhibitions It does not unless you've learned that it does. There are lots of really old (but still perfectly valid) placebo studies on this.

ruraljuror 2y ago

Sure. It's a tool that makes you worse at most things and poisons your body when you drink it, but has proven effective at date rape. It has evolved? I will grant that humans have a complex history with it, but you are mischaracterizing an unhealthy and dangerous drug.

9dev 2y ago

How alcohol came about it entirely irrelevant when discussing effects on society and recommendations on consumption. A hammer that, when you use it on a certain, individual, previously unknown, amount of nails, will nefariously and permanently influence your brain to nudge you to use a hammer more often, even when you would actually need any other kind of tool; that is not a hammer I would recommend anyone to use. Alcohol has all kinds of complex and negative interactions with people. It makes young people more violent and reckless, for example; it is used to lessen the pain of psychological issues and sadness, to the users detriment; it causes people to say and do things they regret later. Sure, it also loosens you up, which can help some time, but characterising alcohol as a tool is at best a gross mischaracterisation and at worst self deception.