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Funny every Ukrainian I know can speak russian, but not all of them can speak ukrainian. A large portion went to university at least in part in Russia. A larg

Funny every Ukrainian I know can speak russian, but not all of them can speak ukrainian. A large portion went to university at least in part in Russia. A large portion are intermarried with Russians or have intermarried Russian/Ukrainian parents. Prior to the war Ukrainians' views on russians seemed way more friendly than the 'mainstream' american's views on mexicans.

rufus_foreman 2y ago
>> Prior to the war Ukrainians' views on russians seemed way more friendly than the 'mainstream' american's views on mexicans. The 2019 "On Protecting the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language" law forbid the publishing of print media in Russian unless the same publication was available in Ukrainian, it forbid requiring Russian language ability for any job, it forbid Russian instruction in schools after elementary school, and it limited the amount of Russian content allowed in broadcasting. That does not seem to me to be more friendly than the way Mexicans are treated in the US. It seems like a law that was designed to cause conflict. If Canada passed a law that treated French speakers like that, I would expect violence and I would assume that the legislators who passed the law were trying to provoke violence.
- ahartmetz 2y ago
  Uhm well, 2019 was after 2014. After 2014, Ukraine having some "issues" with Russia was pretty well justified.
  - lukan 2y ago
    Issues with Putin and his green men, yes. But why with the russian culture? And I never claimed it qualifies as cultural genocide (like Putin does), but some Ukrainians want that. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/ukraine-russian-influence-destruction/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/ukrain...
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  The post I was responding to: "and in general russians are seen as enemies. Not just russian soldiers, but people with a russian cultural background. Nationalism in all its glory." is complete BS. My reference regarding attitudes towards Mexicans was a response to that comment, not to the law you just mentioned. But what a weird argument you make. Canada has numerous laws like these in order to protect French speakers. How much 'expected violence' by Anglo Canadians has that resulted in? Again, in my experience, every Ukrainian I have met can speak some russian. A good portion can not speak ukrainian. The President of Ukraine's native language is Russian and was a well known Russian language entertainer who stared in 'Servant of the People' a Ukrainian TV show where he spoke Russian. Strange for a country that's being labeled so historically and systemically anti-Russia. Edit: See also Zelensky performing on Russian state TV New Years special https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTmhTxzAH70 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTmhTxzAH70
  - rufus_foreman 2y ago
    >> The post I was responding to: "and in general russians are seen as enemies. Not just russian soldiers, but people with a russian cultural background. Nationalism in all its glory." OK, now I am laughing. The post you were responding to: >> Also the russian language get supressed and in general russians are seen as enemies. Not just russian soldiers, but people with a russian cultural background. Nationalism in all its glory. Any reason you would leave out that first part? Seems sort of relevant does it not?
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      Yes, because 'and' here indicates an additional point being made, which was the point I was responding to (notice I talked about Mexicans and not about spanish). Now please respond to my Canadian laws that protect and/or elevate the french language challenge to your assertion that there would be violence if Canada had laws that favored a specific language. Because Canada has just those very laws to protect French.
      - rufus_foreman 2y ago

rufus_foreman 2y ago

>> Prior to the war Ukrainians' views on russians seemed way more friendly than the 'mainstream' american's views on mexicans. The 2019 "On Protecting the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language" law forbid the publishing of print media in Russian unless the same publication was available in Ukrainian, it forbid requiring Russian language ability for any job, it forbid Russian instruction in schools after elementary school, and it limited the amount of Russian content allowed in broadcasting. That does not seem to me to be more friendly than the way Mexicans are treated in the US. It seems like a law that was designed to cause conflict. If Canada passed a law that treated French speakers like that, I would expect violence and I would assume that the legislators who passed the law were trying to provoke violence.

ahartmetz 2y ago
Uhm well, 2019 was after 2014. After 2014, Ukraine having some "issues" with Russia was pretty well justified.
- lukan 2y ago
  Issues with Putin and his green men, yes. But why with the russian culture? And I never claimed it qualifies as cultural genocide (like Putin does), but some Ukrainians want that. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/ukraine-russian-influence-destruction/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/ukrain...
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
The post I was responding to: "and in general russians are seen as enemies. Not just russian soldiers, but people with a russian cultural background. Nationalism in all its glory." is complete BS. My reference regarding attitudes towards Mexicans was a response to that comment, not to the law you just mentioned. But what a weird argument you make. Canada has numerous laws like these in order to protect French speakers. How much 'expected violence' by Anglo Canadians has that resulted in? Again, in my experience, every Ukrainian I have met can speak some russian. A good portion can not speak ukrainian. The President of Ukraine's native language is Russian and was a well known Russian language entertainer who stared in 'Servant of the People' a Ukrainian TV show where he spoke Russian. Strange for a country that's being labeled so historically and systemically anti-Russia. Edit: See also Zelensky performing on Russian state TV New Years special https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTmhTxzAH70 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTmhTxzAH70
- rufus_foreman 2y ago
  >> The post I was responding to: "and in general russians are seen as enemies. Not just russian soldiers, but people with a russian cultural background. Nationalism in all its glory." OK, now I am laughing. The post you were responding to: >> Also the russian language get supressed and in general russians are seen as enemies. Not just russian soldiers, but people with a russian cultural background. Nationalism in all its glory. Any reason you would leave out that first part? Seems sort of relevant does it not?
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    Yes, because 'and' here indicates an additional point being made, which was the point I was responding to (notice I talked about Mexicans and not about spanish). Now please respond to my Canadian laws that protect and/or elevate the french language challenge to your assertion that there would be violence if Canada had laws that favored a specific language. Because Canada has just those very laws to protect French.
    - rufus_foreman 2y ago