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Bandera Ooh, scary. Here's the deal, though -- the guy is glorified by some people in Ukraine, but not in any official capacity at the national level. When a

Bandera Ooh, scary. Here's the deal, though -- the guy is glorified by some people in Ukraine, but not in any official capacity at the national level. When an attempt was made to grant him official "Hero" status at the national level, it was rejected. The monument in particular is a local endeavor. Doesn't make Putin's war anymore justified Right, but the idea here seems to be to throw cold water on idea that Ukraine is unambiguously the victim of aggression here, or to at least sow some general confusion around it. It's all very straightforward as to why Putin invaded -- and (despite what he says) none of the Nazi stuff had anything to do with it. It's just noise that he puts out there to push people's buttons; to sow doubts about Ukraine's legitimacy as independent state or its right to defend itself; and internally, to get people to sign up for his lemming march.

lukan 2y ago
"Right, but the idea here seems to be to throw cold water on idea that Ukraine is unambiguously the victim of aggression here" Yes, that is Putins plan. That doesn't mean there isn't any truth in its propaganda. The point we are discussing is, if the war Ukraine vs Russia is "as black and white as it gets". To which I disagree, you can find quite some black elements in Ukraine, too. Not at all on the same level and I support weapon delivery etc. But I do not support closing my eyes to only see everything in simple shapes and colors.
- baybal2 2y ago
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- macintux 2y ago
  Russia is raping and slaughtering its way through a country that did not invade it, was not threatening its neighbors, whose primary crime was being too friendly with the West. Why does it matter whether all Ukrainian citizens are angels or devils?
  - lukan 2y ago
    "Why does it matter whether all Ukrainian citizens are angels or devils?" Because people who are devils and who are officially allowed to have weapons and use them sometimes has bad side effects.

lukan 2y ago

"Right, but the idea here seems to be to throw cold water on idea that Ukraine is unambiguously the victim of aggression here" Yes, that is Putins plan. That doesn't mean there isn't any truth in its propaganda. The point we are discussing is, if the war Ukraine vs Russia is "as black and white as it gets". To which I disagree, you can find quite some black elements in Ukraine, too. Not at all on the same level and I support weapon delivery etc. But I do not support closing my eyes to only see everything in simple shapes and colors.

baybal2 2y ago
[dead]
macintux 2y ago
Russia is raping and slaughtering its way through a country that did not invade it, was not threatening its neighbors, whose primary crime was being too friendly with the West. Why does it matter whether all Ukrainian citizens are angels or devils?
- lukan 2y ago
  "Why does it matter whether all Ukrainian citizens are angels or devils?" Because people who are devils and who are officially allowed to have weapons and use them sometimes has bad side effects.