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> Considering that Japan and Korea do just fine Citation needed. If they were doing "just fine", then this wouldn't have happened (from TFA): Chief Cabinet Se

> Considering that Japan and Korea do just fine Citation needed. If they were doing "just fine", then this wouldn't have happened (from TFA): Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshimasa Hayashi told reporters that it's "a critical situation.” The next six years, until the 2030s, will be “the last chance for us to possibly reverse the trend,” he said. > The technological advances / robots will outpace the need for immigration I will believe it when I see it. Or to refer to GP's point - where is the robot that will change bed pan?

ffsm8 2y ago
You might notice that these quotes talk about the future. That's literally the point. They see a development and realize that they'll have a problem if the status quo is kept the same. It won't, which is why the actual issue mostly fails to realize as projected.
- illiac786 2y ago
  >it won’t That’s the core disagreement. It’s like when a car is driving with 200mph toward a brick wall and you say “I don’t understand why they panic, the car will stop doing that before hitting the wall”. Sure, that’s a possibility. But I understand projecting a current trajectory in trying to prepare for the future.
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    > It’s like when a car is driving with 200mph toward a brick wall and you say “I don’t understand why they panic, the car will stop doing that before hitting the wall”. I disagree, it's more like you're in a tank and have been running over every obstacle in the way, with someone on the side constantly shouting "new next one is going to destroy your tank". It's obviously possible, but considering how little we're already valuing labor and have been in a phase of adding even more entirely pointless jobs because the labor is cheap and available - I honestly do believe that I'd be a very healthy thing for our societies to downsize (numerically) again. At least to pre world war 1 levels. It's obviously not going to be easy, but this whole system is going to go bust anyway once the millennials get too old to work, immigration at best postpones this issue for a few years while introducing a shitton of new ones to the equation. There is no perfect solution, but immigration is one of the worst for this particular problem
    - illiac786 2y ago
      I don’t think any of the past obstacles compare with what’s to come. The asteroid impact 60M years ago could be compared but there wasn’t any society at the time. What past “obstacle” has humanity overcome would compare to what’s coming in your view?
      - ffsm8 2y ago
        I was specifically and only talking about what amounts to a labor shortage. This whole discussion is centered around the issue that our societies are getting older, which is why we supposedly need immigration to offset the low birth rate. this issue in particular has been raised and solved through automation repeatedly since the industrial revolution.

ffsm8 2y ago

You might notice that these quotes talk about the future. That's literally the point. They see a development and realize that they'll have a problem if the status quo is kept the same. It won't, which is why the actual issue mostly fails to realize as projected.

illiac786 2y ago
>it won’t That’s the core disagreement. It’s like when a car is driving with 200mph toward a brick wall and you say “I don’t understand why they panic, the car will stop doing that before hitting the wall”. Sure, that’s a possibility. But I understand projecting a current trajectory in trying to prepare for the future.
- ffsm8 2y ago
  > It’s like when a car is driving with 200mph toward a brick wall and you say “I don’t understand why they panic, the car will stop doing that before hitting the wall”. I disagree, it's more like you're in a tank and have been running over every obstacle in the way, with someone on the side constantly shouting "new next one is going to destroy your tank". It's obviously possible, but considering how little we're already valuing labor and have been in a phase of adding even more entirely pointless jobs because the labor is cheap and available - I honestly do believe that I'd be a very healthy thing for our societies to downsize (numerically) again. At least to pre world war 1 levels. It's obviously not going to be easy, but this whole system is going to go bust anyway once the millennials get too old to work, immigration at best postpones this issue for a few years while introducing a shitton of new ones to the equation. There is no perfect solution, but immigration is one of the worst for this particular problem
  - illiac786 2y ago
    I don’t think any of the past obstacles compare with what’s to come. The asteroid impact 60M years ago could be compared but there wasn’t any society at the time. What past “obstacle” has humanity overcome would compare to what’s coming in your view?
    - ffsm8 2y ago
      I was specifically and only talking about what amounts to a labor shortage. This whole discussion is centered around the issue that our societies are getting older, which is why we supposedly need immigration to offset the low birth rate. this issue in particular has been raised and solved through automation repeatedly since the industrial revolution.