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Dear OS writers: Internet access is not always guaranteed or reliable. Please do not assume that the cloud is a viable solution for every user. I ran into th

Dear OS writers: Internet access is not always guaranteed or reliable. Please do not assume that the cloud is a viable solution for every user. I ran into this on my phone awhile back. I knew I would be out of service for some time but had some PDFs I needed to reference. So I downloaded them to "files". Que surprise when I later go to look up a value and there's a little cloud with a down arrow button next to the PDF in the files app, which of course fails because I'm nowhere near any internet access. Even more fun: turning off the cloud integration in files just causes the files to disappear, even if you are currently connected. It's allergic to local storage.

gleenn 2y ago
This is the number one thing that annoys me about so many apps, especially apps with clear use-cases for offline use like listening to music, reading, and learning apps. I don't understand how so many app writers have never gone for a run through a canyon or flown on an airplane. I specifically pay money to SoundCloud for instance just for the "feature" to cache the music locally and somehow it regularly gets stuck clearly from lack of internet. It's probably some metric collection or some other spyware to make sure all the bean counters get their money at the huge expense to usability. Pimsleurs language learning app, and many book reading apps all suffer and all I want to do is not be bored to tears on flights that don't have internet.
- szundi 2y ago
  They just want live data on your activities and update without sync and stuff however expensive that is even for them, easier to be lazy too Also every <35 years old person is a js/web dev, so that’s what they do on cloud
- pocketarc 2y ago
  > I don't understand how so many app writers have never gone for a run through a canyon or flown on an airplane. In the UK, every time I got on a train, I'd experience that. And it was worse than not having internet; you had internet, but with extreme packet loss and instability, meaning that every app out there would simply stall, even if it already had the data to do whatever it is I wanted it to do, because it was waiting on some background request to complete. And because I had internet, the request didn't just fail, but it also wouldn't complete in any reasonable amount of time. Very frustrating.
  - torstenvl 2y ago
    Audible recently started doing this, to the point where I had to revoke its permissions to use cellular data just to get it to work right.
- hughesjj 2y ago
  > learning apps. So fun to spring for the paid duolingo only to realize you can only download the next lesson up, not like the entire course. The lessons are like 5m long wtf am I supposed to do with that? I just want to spend my idle time on the plane or camping disconnected from distractions so I can learn, but app developers have made that effectively impossible And this is why I don't pay for, or even use duolingo even though I'm actively learning a language
jl6 2y ago
If this is the place to complain about broken patterns in Microsoft software, I wonder if anyone can fix this: 1. Create new office document (Word/PowerPoint/etc) and hit save. 2. No, the default location in OneDrive isn’t right so you click the down arrow to see more. 3. No, none of the other recent locations in the (short) list are right either, so you click “More locations” 4. Now you have to click Browse to see an actual Save As dialog that finally lets you navigate through folders. Even then the actual folders are right down at the bottom of the left hand “tree” pane, below a bunch of virtual folders, below OneDrive (aside: if you navigate “up” from here you get to “Desktop”, but it’s not the same “Desktop” that appears lower down in the list; that one is inside your OneDrive), below Music, Videos (you get no hint as to where these actually are), finally near the bottom there is This PC and Network which you can navigate sanely through. Oh, and right at the bottom there is “Microsoft PowerPoint”, as a save location. You can click on it and try to save a document in there, wherever “Microsoft PowerPoint” is. Just kidding, you are stopped by a dialog box telling you this isn’t a valid location. JFC. No wonder people prefer the “everything is an app icon” approach. Windows is diabolical for managing files.
- ijidak 2y ago
  1,000% agree. Saving files in Office has turned into a nightmare. I don't understand what Microsoft is thinking with this behavior. I'm fine with that being the default flow. But it can't even be turned off. I imagine this design is better for non power users. They no longer forget where they saved their files. But for power users, this is terrible.
rezonant 2y ago
Yeah, my machine connects over WiFi on an external USB 3 adapter because I'm too lazy to finish my Ethernet project. The adapter requires drivers, which are handily included on the device itself as a mass storage device. But there's seemingly no way to get those drivers installed in the captive environment, I even tried using the "launch cmd" key shortcut and manually running the executable, but Windows wouldn't have it. And there's no option to install drivers so you can proceed with Microsoft Account sign in... Literally my only option was to use the local account bypass. How long before they fully remove that, though, remains to be seen.
freedomben 2y ago
Seriously, it drives me absolutely out of my mind. I tell everybody who listen, "Remember your users aren't software engineers who are always connected over fast reliable pipes, and program accordingly" but it's a hard problem. No PM ever wants to hear that you're spending time optimizing for no/low internet scenarios. I've gotten burned by that "isn't really downloaded" thing a few times before too, to the point where I don't trust apps to download anymore. I just adb push files from my laptop to my phone before I go. Can't always do that though, but I try to.

gleenn 2y ago

This is the number one thing that annoys me about so many apps, especially apps with clear use-cases for offline use like listening to music, reading, and learning apps. I don't understand how so many app writers have never gone for a run through a canyon or flown on an airplane. I specifically pay money to SoundCloud for instance just for the "feature" to cache the music locally and somehow it regularly gets stuck clearly from lack of internet. It's probably some metric collection or some other spyware to make sure all the bean counters get their money at the huge expense to usability. Pimsleurs language learning app, and many book reading apps all suffer and all I want to do is not be bored to tears on flights that don't have internet.

szundi 2y ago
They just want live data on your activities and update without sync and stuff however expensive that is even for them, easier to be lazy too Also every <35 years old person is a js/web dev, so that’s what they do on cloud
pocketarc 2y ago
> I don't understand how so many app writers have never gone for a run through a canyon or flown on an airplane. In the UK, every time I got on a train, I'd experience that. And it was worse than not having internet; you had internet, but with extreme packet loss and instability, meaning that every app out there would simply stall, even if it already had the data to do whatever it is I wanted it to do, because it was waiting on some background request to complete. And because I had internet, the request didn't just fail, but it also wouldn't complete in any reasonable amount of time. Very frustrating.
- torstenvl 2y ago
  Audible recently started doing this, to the point where I had to revoke its permissions to use cellular data just to get it to work right.
hughesjj 2y ago
> learning apps. So fun to spring for the paid duolingo only to realize you can only download the next lesson up, not like the entire course. The lessons are like 5m long wtf am I supposed to do with that? I just want to spend my idle time on the plane or camping disconnected from distractions so I can learn, but app developers have made that effectively impossible And this is why I don't pay for, or even use duolingo even though I'm actively learning a language

jl6 2y ago

If this is the place to complain about broken patterns in Microsoft software, I wonder if anyone can fix this: 1. Create new office document (Word/PowerPoint/etc) and hit save. 2. No, the default location in OneDrive isn’t right so you click the down arrow to see more. 3. No, none of the other recent locations in the (short) list are right either, so you click “More locations” 4. Now you have to click Browse to see an actual Save As dialog that finally lets you navigate through folders. Even then the actual folders are right down at the bottom of the left hand “tree” pane, below a bunch of virtual folders, below OneDrive (aside: if you navigate “up” from here you get to “Desktop”, but it’s not the same “Desktop” that appears lower down in the list; that one is inside your OneDrive), below Music, Videos (you get no hint as to where these actually are), finally near the bottom there is This PC and Network which you can navigate sanely through. Oh, and right at the bottom there is “Microsoft PowerPoint”, as a save location. You can click on it and try to save a document in there, wherever “Microsoft PowerPoint” is. Just kidding, you are stopped by a dialog box telling you this isn’t a valid location. JFC. No wonder people prefer the “everything is an app icon” approach. Windows is diabolical for managing files.

ijidak 2y ago
1,000% agree. Saving files in Office has turned into a nightmare. I don't understand what Microsoft is thinking with this behavior. I'm fine with that being the default flow. But it can't even be turned off. I imagine this design is better for non power users. They no longer forget where they saved their files. But for power users, this is terrible.

rezonant 2y ago

Yeah, my machine connects over WiFi on an external USB 3 adapter because I'm too lazy to finish my Ethernet project. The adapter requires drivers, which are handily included on the device itself as a mass storage device. But there's seemingly no way to get those drivers installed in the captive environment, I even tried using the "launch cmd" key shortcut and manually running the executable, but Windows wouldn't have it. And there's no option to install drivers so you can proceed with Microsoft Account sign in... Literally my only option was to use the local account bypass. How long before they fully remove that, though, remains to be seen.

freedomben 2y ago

Seriously, it drives me absolutely out of my mind. I tell everybody who listen, "Remember your users aren't software engineers who are always connected over fast reliable pipes, and program accordingly" but it's a hard problem. No PM ever wants to hear that you're spending time optimizing for no/low internet scenarios. I've gotten burned by that "isn't really downloaded" thing a few times before too, to the point where I don't trust apps to download anymore. I just adb push files from my laptop to my phone before I go. Can't always do that though, but I try to.