5 ms·

Maybe a bit off-topic, but I sure wish they'd do this for OneDrive! I installed Windows for personal use for the first time recently (although I use it exclusiv

• fourteenfour 2y ago
  Yes, my company just went through a merger and for quite a while we had two OneDrives showing up and it was difficult to tell where the default folders were in addition to being a huge mess any time a file dialog opened. I've actually reverted to creating folders in C:\ to store files so I know where they are.
• mrandish 2y ago
  Yes, Onedrive started out as a pretty useful tool but has turned into a deceptive trojan that tries to force whatever growth metric MSFT managers are currently chasing through a combination of dark patterns (like hiding true file paths from view) and also simply refusing to operate in obviously useful ways which many users want and expect (like not having a built-in way to back up only specific sub-folders on different drives (forcing paying users to trick it by using junctions)).
  • RajT88 2y ago
    There used to be no option to uninstall it - now there is. You will still get it reinstalled during a major OS update, but at least it can easily be removed. Before it was a chore to clean up. I would speculate there is even some way to prevent it from reinstalling during those major updates. That seems like the kind of capability they would build in because a huge Windows customer complained (i.e. realistically, the major check against dark patterns in Windows).
    • mrandish 2y ago
      > I would speculate there is even some way to prevent it from reinstalling during those major updates. The one positive about Windows is their need to cater to their enterprise IT fleet management base. So, as long as you have a Pro version of Windows, there is usually a way to lock down most things like this via Computer Policy settings. It's just not easy to discover nor time-efficient if you're managing a personal "fleet" of three PCs.
    • bc_programming 2y ago
      Not quite what you are describing, but you can prevent any specific executable from ever running by configuring a "debugger" for it in Image File Execution options (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Image File Execution Options). You add a key with the executable name and then add a "debugger" value, then point that debugger at C:\Windows\system32\systray.exe. Every time the named executable tries to launch, Windows will try to "debug" it with systray, which immediately exits so the program never actually runs. After uninstalling OneDrive this can be set to prevent OneDriveSetup.exe from ever running for example.
      • RajT88 2y ago
        You can also define software restriction policies to do similar things. It id what SRP's are for (but yes, I would not put it past them to disable anything targeting OneDrive).
  • sorry_outta_gas 2y ago
• soared 2y ago
  I just got a new PC and went through the same thing! Incredibly frustrating that in something Godot I have to manually traverse through folders to get to where I want to actually save a file (like.. Documents)
• jandrese 2y ago
  Dear OS writers: Internet access is not always guaranteed or reliable. Please do not assume that the cloud is a viable solution for every user. I ran into this on my phone awhile back. I knew I would be out of service for some time but had some PDFs I needed to reference. So I downloaded them to "files". Que surprise when I later go to look up a value and there's a little cloud with a down arrow button next to the PDF in the files app, which of course fails because I'm nowhere near any internet access. Even more fun: turning off the cloud integration in files just causes the files to disappear, even if you are currently connected. It's allergic to local storage.
  • gleenn 2y ago
    This is the number one thing that annoys me about so many apps, especially apps with clear use-cases for offline use like listening to music, reading, and learning apps. I don't understand how so many app writers have never gone for a run through a canyon or flown on an airplane. I specifically pay money to SoundCloud for instance just for the "feature" to cache the music locally and somehow it regularly gets stuck clearly from lack of internet. It's probably some metric collection or some other spyware to make sure all the bean counters get their money at the huge expense to usability. Pimsleurs language learning app, and many book reading apps all suffer and all I want to do is not be bored to tears on flights that don't have internet.
    • szundi 2y ago
      They just want live data on your activities and update without sync and stuff however expensive that is even for them, easier to be lazy too Also every <35 years old person is a js/web dev, so that’s what they do on cloud
    • pocketarc 2y ago
      > I don't understand how so many app writers have never gone for a run through a canyon or flown on an airplane. In the UK, every time I got on a train, I'd experience that. And it was worse than not having internet; you had internet, but with extreme packet loss and instability, meaning that every app out there would simply stall, even if it already had the data to do whatever it is I wanted it to do, because it was waiting on some background request to complete. And because I had internet, the request didn't just fail, but it also wouldn't complete in any reasonable amount of time. Very frustrating.
• emeril 2y ago
  you just have to use dopus as a file explorer replacement and just use dropbox (with cryptomator of course...) to yield (in most respects) best in class file management and sync
• scrlk 2y ago
  Always set Windows up with a local account to avoid this nonsense. Used to be relatively straightforward in Windows 10, but MS made it a lot harder to dodge in 11.
• isoprophlex 2y ago
  Hang around kids and even though they can be pretty good at using a computer, they have no clue how the thing actually works. They don't know what a file is anymore. Everything is a shiny little icon in a shiny little magic folder. Not trying to make this sound like a value judgment, more an observation. But it makes you wonder, what do we lose by excessive abstraction.
  • cjk2 2y ago
    Yeah my 82 year old mother knows more about files than my kids do.
  • immibis 2y ago
    This isn't excessive abstraction - this is just different abstraction. Files and folders are a human invention, and there's no law of nature forcing us to continue using them. It's like complaining about people forgetting how to use MS-DOS commands, when Windows (until PowerShell) was built on GUIs through and through and MS-DOS commands were only still there for compatibility. You don't have to learn MS-DOS command to copy files, you learn to use Explorer to copy files (which to a small extent is like using the MS-DOS command). Or like complaining people forgot how to use teletypes. We didn't have to keep using teletypes, and we didn't keep using them. Our Linux terminals are still modeled after teletypes, but not in a way that has anything to do with using a real teletype. You don't learn teletypes, you learn terminals (which to a medium extent are like teletypes). It isn't like when people don't learn to add numbers or how Quicksort works or assembly code. Those are still fundamental truths that help people understand things. It's more like not learning to write Roman numerals, or not learning ALGOL 60. Nothing is really lost except the ability to read old things. You don't learn Roman numerals, you learn western Arabic numerals, and they're better, not worse. You don't learn ALGOL 60, you learn C11, and some people would argue whether it's better, but it's not worse.
    • dimensi0nal 2y ago
      storing things "in apps" still makes a file on a filesystem, but it's less reliable and the user doesn't know where it is
• wannacboatmovie 2y ago
  The proper way of doing it is to use the API calls that have existed for decades to get the paths of well-known folders. It is because they are known to move and in fact having a roaming profile on a server location dates to the mid 90s with WinNT. If you're hard coding paths you're doing it wrong.
  • smaudet 2y ago
    > The proper way of doing it is to use the API calls that have existed for decades A user doesn't want to do this though. I tried casually using a windows 11 machine for something the other day (I think I was fixing game folders for my girlfriend), using just explorer, and it was pretty obscenely bad how overly confusing it had gotten. I say this, and I fairly routinely debug old build systems with complex nesting file structures, I know my way around a file system. This wasn't a case of "oh you're just a power user", this was a case of the system had broken, and the simple advice of "backing up your files" and "copy your files over here" wasn't working. Telling everyone they need to use API calls is just ridiculous, the filesystem is just broken for the average user.
• tkuraku 2y ago
  It is infuriating when I open the file explorer and it takes many seconds to populate the side bar. This wasn't the case wit windows 10. Everyting in one drive really makes things take a long time. OneDrive is great, but I want a OneDrive folder where things are sync'd, not transparently transforming the file system into OneDrive.
• whutsurnaym 2y ago
  I recently tried to fully rid myself of OneDrive and it took me over 48 hours to accomplish. The only working method I found involved fully enabling OneDrive, signing in, and waiting for a full sync. Only then was I able to tell it to stop syncing and finally remap Documents, Downloads, Pictures, etc. The fact that I needed to log in, wait 24 hours for my account to unlock due to inactivity (!!!), and enable sync in order to disable it was enough for me to finally decide that Windows 10 will be my last Microsoft product. It may be a small annoyance, but to me it was the straw that broke the camel's back.
  • shbooms 2y ago
    And I can almost guarentee you it will magically all turn itself back on/reinstall itself eventually after the OS force updates/reboots itself in the not too distant future.
    • whutsurnaym 2y ago
      It's already re-created the OneDrive folder, but it hasn't moved any of my libraries back yet. Knock on wood.
  • imiric 2y ago
    That is truly insidious, but FWIW, you don't need to abandon Windows entirely because of this. There are ways of creating a custom Windows installation disk that removes OneDrive, along with other bloatware, spyware, and pretty much anything else you don't like. Look into tools such as Tiny11 Builder, MSMG Toolkit, NTLite, etc. This is a decent guide[1] for setting all of this up. The process is quite tedious and takes a few hours, but in the end you end up with a personalized version of Windows, without any of the garbage. You still need to be vigilant of Windows Update undoing some of this, but you can also disable it altogether and manually cherry pick the updates you want to install. It's insane that Microsoft is building such a user hostile OS that forces users to resort to this, but if you absolutely must use it, the experience after doing the above is not so bad. I've been running a custom install of Windows 11 for about a year now without any issues. [1]: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/create-custom-windows-11-install-disk https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/create-custom-windows-11...
• cjk2 2y ago
  If you think this is bad, there was a period last year that my documents folder would suddenly rename itself to "Documents" but in a different language. This would religiously change every few days. Other people have reported it as well. I have disposed of my last PC now and have nothing to do with the infernal things, or onedrive, or any of that crap ever again!
• diego_sandoval 2y ago
  I unfortunately had to use Windows last year, and the whole mix up between local folders and OneDrive folders meant that the only way to not go insane was to avoid using those folders altogether, create a C:\MyStuff folder and store everything there. I like this video of Jonathan Blow ranting about the file explorer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le6dvr95Z2Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le6dvr95Z2Q
• rezonant 2y ago
  Interesting, our experiences are different here. I suspect it's because I installed Windows 11 (23H2) using a local account using the OOBE bypass (not because I particularly hate the Microsoft account thing, but because this machine uses an external WiFi adapter and requires drivers in order to work, so I could not have done it even if I wanted to). The drivers are actually included on the device, but there's not a clear way to accomplish a driver installation while in the captive OOBE, even given the ability to launch a command line. I did later connect my Microsoft account. In my installation the OneDrive folder is empty and the entries in Explorer map to the normal places (C:\Users\X\Pictures etc). If I open one of the default folders, it does show a "Start backup" entry in the address bar that is referring to OneDrive, though. If I open the OneDrive folder, it asks me to sign in (entering password) and set it up-- which is funny, because the Windows user is signed in using a Microsoft account already- so seems like they haven't connected those dots properly yet. In theory this might be their way of implementing a security check for uploading all your files, but if so it's an awkward way to do it. > Additionally, some programs still seem to want to use the OneDrive folder by default, like I think Office programs still do their best to use them. If I remember correctly, there is an API that programs can use to locate common folder locations for users (such as Documents, Pictures, etc). My guess is that your account still points to the C:\Users\X\OneDrive\Pictures instead of C:\Users\X\Pictures. If you could adjust those directly (maybe in the registry?), I would imagine that it will work correctly in these programs, especially since I doubt those programs would break on my setup, where there is no OneDrive subfolders (though I don't use Office so I can't check). And in case you wonder if there really are no subfolders in OneDrive since I can't open it in Explorer without signing into it- it shows nothing when viewed via PowerShell.
• neogodless 2y ago
  This is especially obnoxious for Desktop and Remote Desktop Connection. The former because my desktop is... where I want things just a certain way for THIS computer, not across the cloud. And because it's a PITA to undo and set it the correct way. The latter because of course I use Remote Desktop on multiple computers, but it keeps saving a "default" file in the same place across computers, and throwing errors left and right because they conflict. So stupid.
• gigel82 2y ago
  Or better yet, make the OneDrive integration a public, documented API so we can plug in our own cloud storage and get all the same benefits (syncing settings, files, game saves, etc. but with the added benefit of choice). I'd love to get native integration with ownCloud / NextCloud and even other online competitors. And for that matter, make Apple do the same for iCloud; I'd love to keep all my iPhone stuff in my own self hosted "cloud" and get 1st party integration.
• layer8 2y ago
  You have to reinstall Windows and set up a local account instead of a Microsoft account. Everyone should install Windows with a local account. For Windows 11: https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-account https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-witho...
  • autoexec 2y ago
    I wonder how long that will work... https://www.howtogeek.com/windows-11-just-killed-a-local-account-setup-workaround/ https://www.howtogeek.com/windows-11-just-killed-a-local-acc...
    • layer8 2y ago
      It’s unlikely that they would completely block offline installations.
• megablast 2y ago
  One drive is awful. It keeps crashing and forgetting where it was. I have 3 copies now. I have to waste time to sort it out. And it messes up the dates. It is disgustingly f our workplace enforces this.
• robocat 2y ago
  The gateway to a monthly consumer subscription. Therefore important to Microsoft. Apple also uses dark patterns to try and get a monthly income from customers. Apple has upsells and nag nag nag advertisements for iCloud. The irony with Microsoft is that I would consider paying a monthly fee for a modern version of Windows 2000 without extra features. No adverts, no telemetry, no OneDrive, no cloud signin, no store, no games installed as part of the OS, no MS junkware, no bullshit. Aside: why is there no "Windows for developers" - even Balmer knew "developers developers developers" was worthwhile but Microsoft has deleted that from its DNA: even though Apple's competition is a mixed bag.
• skywhopper 2y ago
  Add to these complaints that many folders are actually logical overlapping folders that pull from multiple places. I haven’t been able to bring myself to use Windows for years now, and I was a Windows sysadmin for over a decade! It’s basically impossible for someone like me who needs to feel in control of their computing environment to ever feel comfortable with.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]