4 ms·

> Without Recall, an attacker needs to get a program to stay resident in memory to log keystrokes, screen contents, etc Or it could just steal your cookies whi

> Without Recall, an attacker needs to get a program to stay resident in memory to log keystrokes, screen contents, etc Or it could just steal your cookies which are out there in the open.

haswell 2y ago
Cookies are of relatively low value compared to a database of everything the user has typed and seen.
- wvenable 2y ago
  What value is that? My auth cookies are far more valuable than anything I typed out in the open today.
  - haswell 2y ago
    Your auth cookie expires. The username/password you type in next time it expires is far more valuable. And it might not even be necessary to obtain cookies or credentials if I can just see whatever you could see when you’re logged into various sites.
    - wvenable 2y ago
      This is all moot anyway because Microsoft has already said they are now going to encrypt everything behind Windows Hello making it as secure as my password manager.
      - haswell 2y ago
        Microsoft has made misleading statements regarding encryption [0] and it doesn’t help much. Encryption at rest doesn’t much matter if the user being logged in is enough for the data to be decrypted. This is the context malware runs in. https://doublepulsar.com/recall-stealing-everything-youve-ever-typed-or-viewed-on-your-own-windows-pc-is-now-possible-da3e12e9465e https://doublepulsar.com/recall-stealing-everything-youve-ev...
        wvenable 2y ago
        That's old information. This is how Microsoft is intending to change Recall based on these criticisms: Microsoft will also require Windows Hello to enable Recall, so you’ll either authenticate with your face, fingerprint, or using a PIN. “In addition, proof of presence is also required to view your timeline and search in Recall,” says Davuluri, so someone won’t be able to start searching through your timeline without authenticating first. This authentication will also apply to the data protection around the snapshots that Recall creates. “We are adding additional layers of data protection including ‘just in time’ decryption protected by Windows Hello Enhanced Sign-in Security (ESS) so Recall snapshots will only be decrypted and accessible when the user authenticates,” explains Davuluri. “In addition, we encrypted the search index database.” https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/7/24173499/microsoft-windows-recall-response-security-concerns https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/7/24173499/microsoft-windows...
        haswell 2y ago
        "Old" is a bit of a stretch here ;) But I'm glad to hear they've committed to making changes. Given the misrepresentations they made regarding the initial rollout plan (the target of most criticism, mine included), Microsoft has to prove themselves here and I'll wait until qualified security folks get their hands on this before coming to any conclusions. What we know is that the initial version was a non-starter, and this new info validates the concerns we've all been expressing. I truly hope Microsoft does an acceptable job of addressing this. It remains baffling and worrisome that it took a public outcry for them to implement what sounds like a baseline level of acceptable protection.
        wvenable 2y ago
        Well it is "old" since the article is about Microsoft's blog post where they discuss all these changes! https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/06/07/update-on-the-recall-preview-feature-for-copilot-pcs/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/06/07/updat... > It remains baffling and worrisome that it took a public outcry for them to implement what sounds like a baseline level of acceptable protection. It's possible this was the intention all along but as a early-beta feature this was just the MVP. The reason it was rolled out to early testers at all was to get feedback.
      - sqeaky 2y ago
        Why would someone trust microsoft on security?
        wvenable 2y ago
        HN is a weird place. 95% of the world runs on Microsoft technology to some degree. (95% also runs on Linux to some degree as well)
        sqeaky 2y ago
        Yeah, and places I work with ms stuff keep getting hacked (big important stuff) and leaking stuff and places with linux, or anything else as, far as I can tell don't. Or ar least not in the same number or quantity. I have never seen a crypto locker ransomware on a server except for windows servers. I haven't seen another OS with ads. So many terroble things happen only in the windows/ms ecosystem that it really makes me wonderhow it sticks around but I have ideas about that and they will just make you think I am wierd.
      - abenga 2y ago
        What if Microsoft is the party I do not trust?

> Without Recall, an attacker needs to get a program to stay resident in memory to log keystrokes, screen contents, etc Or it could just steal your cookies which are out there in the open.

haswell 2y ago

Cookies are of relatively low value compared to a database of everything the user has typed and seen.

wvenable 2y ago
What value is that? My auth cookies are far more valuable than anything I typed out in the open today.
- haswell 2y ago
  Your auth cookie expires. The username/password you type in next time it expires is far more valuable. And it might not even be necessary to obtain cookies or credentials if I can just see whatever you could see when you’re logged into various sites.
  - wvenable 2y ago
    This is all moot anyway because Microsoft has already said they are now going to encrypt everything behind Windows Hello making it as secure as my password manager.
    - haswell 2y ago
      Microsoft has made misleading statements regarding encryption [0] and it doesn’t help much. Encryption at rest doesn’t much matter if the user being logged in is enough for the data to be decrypted. This is the context malware runs in. https://doublepulsar.com/recall-stealing-everything-youve-ever-typed-or-viewed-on-your-own-windows-pc-is-now-possible-da3e12e9465e https://doublepulsar.com/recall-stealing-everything-youve-ev...
      - wvenable 2y ago
        That's old information. This is how Microsoft is intending to change Recall based on these criticisms: Microsoft will also require Windows Hello to enable Recall, so you’ll either authenticate with your face, fingerprint, or using a PIN. “In addition, proof of presence is also required to view your timeline and search in Recall,” says Davuluri, so someone won’t be able to start searching through your timeline without authenticating first. This authentication will also apply to the data protection around the snapshots that Recall creates. “We are adding additional layers of data protection including ‘just in time’ decryption protected by Windows Hello Enhanced Sign-in Security (ESS) so Recall snapshots will only be decrypted and accessible when the user authenticates,” explains Davuluri. “In addition, we encrypted the search index database.” https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/7/24173499/microsoft-windows-recall-response-security-concerns https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/7/24173499/microsoft-windows...
        haswell 2y ago
        "Old" is a bit of a stretch here ;) But I'm glad to hear they've committed to making changes. Given the misrepresentations they made regarding the initial rollout plan (the target of most criticism, mine included), Microsoft has to prove themselves here and I'll wait until qualified security folks get their hands on this before coming to any conclusions. What we know is that the initial version was a non-starter, and this new info validates the concerns we've all been expressing. I truly hope Microsoft does an acceptable job of addressing this. It remains baffling and worrisome that it took a public outcry for them to implement what sounds like a baseline level of acceptable protection.
        wvenable 2y ago
        Well it is "old" since the article is about Microsoft's blog post where they discuss all these changes! https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/06/07/update-on-the-recall-preview-feature-for-copilot-pcs/ https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2024/06/07/updat... > It remains baffling and worrisome that it took a public outcry for them to implement what sounds like a baseline level of acceptable protection. It's possible this was the intention all along but as a early-beta feature this was just the MVP. The reason it was rolled out to early testers at all was to get feedback.
    - sqeaky 2y ago
      Why would someone trust microsoft on security?
      - wvenable 2y ago
        HN is a weird place. 95% of the world runs on Microsoft technology to some degree. (95% also runs on Linux to some degree as well)
        sqeaky 2y ago
        Yeah, and places I work with ms stuff keep getting hacked (big important stuff) and leaking stuff and places with linux, or anything else as, far as I can tell don't. Or ar least not in the same number or quantity. I have never seen a crypto locker ransomware on a server except for windows servers. I haven't seen another OS with ads. So many terroble things happen only in the windows/ms ecosystem that it really makes me wonderhow it sticks around but I have ideas about that and they will just make you think I am wierd.
    - abenga 2y ago
      What if Microsoft is the party I do not trust?