5 ms·

I still don't understand how this got this far. Enabling this in any corporate setting would be a compliance nightmare.

Rinzler89 2y ago
Corporate is never on the bleeding edge of Windows feature updates. They bring security updates first, but feature updates are at least one generation behind, maybe more waiting for Microsoft to fix bugs and doing their own regression testing, plus they get to choose wich features employees receive or are enabled by default via group policy. In other worlds, recall was never making it into any corporation anyway.
- oldpersonintx 2y ago
  maybe 50% of US business users have an admin of any kind who oversees their IT ops everyone else just gets a laptop, unboxes it, turns it on, uses it, does whatever they want to it see: any retail location in a strip mall, any mom/pop business, etc etc
- nativeit 2y ago
  This is generally true, but Windows is the standard for far more SMBs than larger enterprise customers, and in that context it’s not nearly so straightforward. I have a client, a health insurance benefits broker for other local businesses. They do very well for themselves, but it’s just 2-3 full-time people, so there’s never been much cause for a full-on domain with GPO policies to maintain a strict, stable state across their equipment. Traditionally, off-the-shelf systems with SMB-targeted software had been more than sufficient. When Microsoft decided to push a feature upgrade last year that automatically enabled OneDrive backups for their home directories, it technically violated HIPAA by moving electronic patient health information contained within their scanned files folder onto OneDrive servers without any prior consent or authorization. They literally called me when they were unable to find their files, Microsoft had (laughably, if it weren’t so serious) placed a text file on the desktop titled “Where Did My Files Go.txt”, and then directed them to the OneDrive folders where it had moved their desktops, documents, and pictures without their knowledge or approval. I have since moved them to Microsoft 365 accounts where I can apply GPO, but my clients were understandably unhappy about having a new annual subscription that didn’t add any tangible benefit, rather they’re now on the hook for a couple hundred bucks a year for what’s essentially a shake down. Pay for the new service that adds nothing meaningful to their experience, or else face the consequences of Microsoft ruining your business on a whim.
  - grugagag 2y ago
    Yeah, MS will continue to do this kinds of abuse, it’s in they DNA by now
- unlikelytomato 2y ago
  I would have agreed with you until revently. And now, everyone is throwing email, chat, code, everything into cloud based AI tools at a highly regulated company. This happened 6 months after they just locked everything down for actual employees because of an IP leak. Very strange times…
3qmtacr674qac 2y ago
With Chat Control[1] coming up in EU, it would be awfully convenient to have the technological capability readily available to deliver a solution. Once you have the Recall capabilities, it doesn't take much to start collecting and searching the data. [1]: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/
LegitShady 2y ago
I bet there are a trillion companies and governments who want to know what all of their employees are doing every second of the workday. compliance won't stop them from trying.
rchaud 2y ago
Corporate clients get whatever they want. I am certain that their Windows 10 support won't be pulled in Oct 2025 as MS has threatened for everyone else. And when they migrate to Win11, it will almost certainly be a separate OS image free of the garbage bloatware and ads that the consumer devices are plagued with.
- nativeit 2y ago
  Am I just imagining their saying that Windows 10 would be the last Windows? I had thought they would be moving to an Apple-esque model where OS updates would just become iterative and avoid the old EOL/upgrade cycle. It’s how I justified all of their tangential money-grabs on other fronts.
  - doctorwho42 2y ago
    You aren't the only one, from my understanding it was a misspoken thing by one higher up. It spread, so much so people I knew working at Microsoft spouted it as fact.
- Fysi 2y ago
  Not really a problem for enterprises. Any company that has compliance requirements to keep devices supported with security updates, it's the same as Win 7 to Win 10; you either update everyone to Win 11 or you pay for the security updates for Win 10 (IIRC you have 3 years to update before you can't pay anymore). Many will likely already be on Win 11 as the upgrade path is easier/quicker than Win 7 to 10. Also they will not have the gunk installed anyway as they will almost certainly have Windows Enterprise which has more policies that can be set, and then they will also be ordering devices from an OEM or distributor that doesn't have the junk included. Heck, if they aren't doing Autopilot from the OEM or distributor, they will almost certainly be applying their own Windows image.
Terretta 2y ago
The corporate settings that care already do this to the employee screens ... Compliance doesn't say "company can't watch employee" -- in many cases it mandates surveillance. This just lets the employee leverage that too.
- organsnyder 2y ago
  Depends on the compliance. If this monitoring sucks up any personal data (I don't mean employees' data here—personal data owned by anyone) there are erasure and data subject access requirements, for instance.
- karaterobot 2y ago
  Security compliance generally does not require a third-party company, unaffiliated with the corporation, to be sent a copy of everything shown on a user's screen.
dbish 2y ago
I think on the product side it’s pretty straight forward. They saw RewindAI talking up a bunch of traction and people seemingly interested. Someone assumed customers wanted this because of that data, and it’s a pretty easy thing to build, so they went ahead. I am surprised it got past security reviews but I can understand how it came to be from the product side. They’ll probably think twice before jumping into the fray again with the Microsoft branded Informant Wire (I mean AI wearable) ;)
autoexec 2y ago
I don't understand how Outlook isn't a compliance nightmare. Especially since it's moved to the cloud. The amount of very sensitive data Microsoft must have on just about every single business/industry thanks to outlook and excel is insane. At one place I worked when the company replaced my old machine with a new windows 10 system it was configured to send every single keystroke back to Microsoft. There was zero concern over privacy or compliance, just an assumption that MS would never abuse that data for any reason. I did not have their faith and disabled that "feature" then changed a massive number of other policies to try and keep as much data out of Microsoft's hands as I could.
- simooooo 2y ago
  What configuration setting does that?
  - autoexec 2y ago
    "Speech Inking and Typing" stuff. Enabled by default. It's in Windows 11 too but I don't know if that's still enabled by default. https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/microsoft-windows-10-keylogger-enabled-default-heres-disable/ https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/microsoft-windows... https://www.pcworld.com/article/423165/how-to-turn-off-windows-10s-keylogger-yes-it-still-has-one.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/423165/how-to-turn-off-windo...
  - genevra 2y ago
    Using Windows OS xp

Corporate is never on the bleeding edge of Windows feature updates. They bring security updates first, but feature updates are at least one generation behind, maybe more waiting for Microsoft to fix bugs and doing their own regression testing, plus they get to choose wich features employees receive or are enabled by default via group policy. In other worlds, recall was never making it into any corporation anyway.

oldpersonintx 2y ago
maybe 50% of US business users have an admin of any kind who oversees their IT ops everyone else just gets a laptop, unboxes it, turns it on, uses it, does whatever they want to it see: any retail location in a strip mall, any mom/pop business, etc etc
nativeit 2y ago
This is generally true, but Windows is the standard for far more SMBs than larger enterprise customers, and in that context it’s not nearly so straightforward. I have a client, a health insurance benefits broker for other local businesses. They do very well for themselves, but it’s just 2-3 full-time people, so there’s never been much cause for a full-on domain with GPO policies to maintain a strict, stable state across their equipment. Traditionally, off-the-shelf systems with SMB-targeted software had been more than sufficient. When Microsoft decided to push a feature upgrade last year that automatically enabled OneDrive backups for their home directories, it technically violated HIPAA by moving electronic patient health information contained within their scanned files folder onto OneDrive servers without any prior consent or authorization. They literally called me when they were unable to find their files, Microsoft had (laughably, if it weren’t so serious) placed a text file on the desktop titled “Where Did My Files Go.txt”, and then directed them to the OneDrive folders where it had moved their desktops, documents, and pictures without their knowledge or approval. I have since moved them to Microsoft 365 accounts where I can apply GPO, but my clients were understandably unhappy about having a new annual subscription that didn’t add any tangible benefit, rather they’re now on the hook for a couple hundred bucks a year for what’s essentially a shake down. Pay for the new service that adds nothing meaningful to their experience, or else face the consequences of Microsoft ruining your business on a whim.
- grugagag 2y ago
  Yeah, MS will continue to do this kinds of abuse, it’s in they DNA by now
unlikelytomato 2y ago
I would have agreed with you until revently. And now, everyone is throwing email, chat, code, everything into cloud based AI tools at a highly regulated company. This happened 6 months after they just locked everything down for actual employees because of an IP leak. Very strange times…

3qmtacr674qac 2y ago

With Chat Control[1] coming up in EU, it would be awfully convenient to have the technological capability readily available to deliver a solution. Once you have the Recall capabilities, it doesn't take much to start collecting and searching the data. [1]: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/

LegitShady 2y ago

I bet there are a trillion companies and governments who want to know what all of their employees are doing every second of the workday. compliance won't stop them from trying.

rchaud 2y ago

Corporate clients get whatever they want. I am certain that their Windows 10 support won't be pulled in Oct 2025 as MS has threatened for everyone else. And when they migrate to Win11, it will almost certainly be a separate OS image free of the garbage bloatware and ads that the consumer devices are plagued with.

nativeit 2y ago
Am I just imagining their saying that Windows 10 would be the last Windows? I had thought they would be moving to an Apple-esque model where OS updates would just become iterative and avoid the old EOL/upgrade cycle. It’s how I justified all of their tangential money-grabs on other fronts.
- doctorwho42 2y ago
  You aren't the only one, from my understanding it was a misspoken thing by one higher up. It spread, so much so people I knew working at Microsoft spouted it as fact.
Fysi 2y ago
Not really a problem for enterprises. Any company that has compliance requirements to keep devices supported with security updates, it's the same as Win 7 to Win 10; you either update everyone to Win 11 or you pay for the security updates for Win 10 (IIRC you have 3 years to update before you can't pay anymore). Many will likely already be on Win 11 as the upgrade path is easier/quicker than Win 7 to 10. Also they will not have the gunk installed anyway as they will almost certainly have Windows Enterprise which has more policies that can be set, and then they will also be ordering devices from an OEM or distributor that doesn't have the junk included. Heck, if they aren't doing Autopilot from the OEM or distributor, they will almost certainly be applying their own Windows image.

Terretta 2y ago

The corporate settings that care already do this to the employee screens ... Compliance doesn't say "company can't watch employee" -- in many cases it mandates surveillance. This just lets the employee leverage that too.

organsnyder 2y ago
Depends on the compliance. If this monitoring sucks up any personal data (I don't mean employees' data here—personal data owned by anyone) there are erasure and data subject access requirements, for instance.
karaterobot 2y ago
Security compliance generally does not require a third-party company, unaffiliated with the corporation, to be sent a copy of everything shown on a user's screen.

dbish 2y ago

I think on the product side it’s pretty straight forward. They saw RewindAI talking up a bunch of traction and people seemingly interested. Someone assumed customers wanted this because of that data, and it’s a pretty easy thing to build, so they went ahead. I am surprised it got past security reviews but I can understand how it came to be from the product side. They’ll probably think twice before jumping into the fray again with the Microsoft branded Informant Wire (I mean AI wearable) ;)

autoexec 2y ago

I don't understand how Outlook isn't a compliance nightmare. Especially since it's moved to the cloud. The amount of very sensitive data Microsoft must have on just about every single business/industry thanks to outlook and excel is insane. At one place I worked when the company replaced my old machine with a new windows 10 system it was configured to send every single keystroke back to Microsoft. There was zero concern over privacy or compliance, just an assumption that MS would never abuse that data for any reason. I did not have their faith and disabled that "feature" then changed a massive number of other policies to try and keep as much data out of Microsoft's hands as I could.

simooooo 2y ago
What configuration setting does that?
- autoexec 2y ago
  "Speech Inking and Typing" stuff. Enabled by default. It's in Windows 11 too but I don't know if that's still enabled by default. https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/microsoft-windows-10-keylogger-enabled-default-heres-disable/ https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/microsoft-windows... https://www.pcworld.com/article/423165/how-to-turn-off-windows-10s-keylogger-yes-it-still-has-one.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/423165/how-to-turn-off-windo...
- genevra 2y ago
  Using Windows OS xp